tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6638616785966104829.post1473761204292512886..comments2023-07-23T09:13:02.062+01:00Comments on Mind War, ftw!: 99 Problems Cos This 6th Ain't Fun: Multiple ModifiersTheKing Elessarhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04981821487098781957noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6638616785966104829.post-26589437966338079602012-07-08T02:14:26.520+01:002012-07-08T02:14:26.520+01:00Just because something becomes I10 doesn't sup...Just because something becomes I10 doesn't supersede unwieldy, the I of the model itself may change, but the I of the weapon itself is the same. so the Banshee is I10, but the axe is still I1, and if you are swinging the axe, it's at I1Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10672831045684698410noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6638616785966104829.post-79171385856774166162012-07-06T14:55:51.056+01:002012-07-06T14:55:51.056+01:00yeah yeah you win, I already did this argument bef...yeah yeah you win, I already did this argument before so its becoming boring for me.zobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10715413225081718476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6638616785966104829.post-16539165011784738732012-07-06T14:07:48.258+01:002012-07-06T14:07:48.258+01:00And the seeker is still shooting at BS5 regardless...And the seeker is still shooting at BS5 regardless of snap fire rules. Second sentence clearly states this.<br /><br />Even without the FAQ on the matter, this would still have been the case because you dont use the vehicles BS to shoot them. <br />The vehicle is just a carrier. It doesnt matter what happens to the vehicle (short of it being destroyed), those missile will always shoot at BS5.<br /><br />So again the arguement is still pointless.Death Korps of Warhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18361028265149932443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6638616785966104829.post-38609265782605108542012-07-06T11:52:19.809+01:002012-07-06T11:52:19.809+01:00"to allow a vehicle to fire a single seeker m..."to allow a vehicle to fire a single seeker missile" part is flat out saying that vehicle is firing that seeker missile. <br /><br />yes a markerlight is required before vehicle is permitted to fire but still it's the vehicle doing the firing part.zobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10715413225081718476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6638616785966104829.post-43501659780004773922012-07-06T10:59:00.464+01:002012-07-06T10:59:00.464+01:00No they are not.
Tau Codex, Page 31,
"Up to...No they are not.<br /><br />Tau Codex, Page 31,<br /><br />"Up to two seeker missiles may be fitted with to a single vehicle, and one or both aunched in a single turn, each using different markerlight hits.........<br />(this is the important part) <br />Ordinarily, the vehice carrying the seeker missiles has no control over them and cannot launch them itself. The mechanism is remote and responds only to markerlight users. <br />The missiles may always be fired, each at different targets if relevent, regardless of the distance the vehicle has moved or whether it has any other weapons. They may also be fired if the vehicle has suffered a crew stunned."<br /><br />To me that is very self explanatory. <br />The seeker is not fired by the vehicle. It can only be fired once a markerlight has hit its target. <br /><br />Page 29, Markerlight rules. Bullet point 1<br /><br />"To allow a vehicle to fire a single seeker missile at the marked unit. This shooting is resolved normally in all regards at an assumed BS of 5"<br /><br />This is also telling you that the seeker can only be fired from a markerlight hit, and not the vehicle. <br />Not only that, its always firing at BS5 to boot. <br /><br />Zob, If you are going to argue about tau weaponry make sure you know the rules for them yourself.Death Korps of Warhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18361028265149932443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6638616785966104829.post-54035805195292855412012-07-06T06:16:35.135+01:002012-07-06T06:16:35.135+01:00Seekers are fired by the vehicle. Stop assuming an...Seekers are fired by the vehicle. Stop assuming and start reading the rules.zobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10715413225081718476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6638616785966104829.post-55469989204826174382012-07-06T02:49:39.462+01:002012-07-06T02:49:39.462+01:00Page 32 - A Compendium of Special Rules: "Unl...Page 32 - A Compendium of Special Rules: "Unless specifically stated, a model cannot gain the benefit of a special rule more than once. However, the effects of multiple different special rules are cumulative."<br /><br />Page 7 - Basic Versus Advandced: "<b>Where advanced rules apply to a specific model, they always override any contradicting basic rules.</b>" "On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where this occurs, the rule printed in the codex always takes precedence."<br /><br />Emphasis in original.<br /><br /><br />Use the marker lights as the codex reads (with FAQ modifications). So, if I take my BT Techmarine, put him in a squad and he uses his signum, then the model he chooses gets to shoot at BS5, regardless of the other rules, like Snapfire for Zoomers or Overwatch against assaulters. Sure, the unit uses BS1, but that one model gets to use BS5.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6638616785966104829.post-64453485367222411022012-07-06T02:47:43.915+01:002012-07-06T02:47:43.915+01:00But the seekers arent fired by the tank. It has no...But the seekers arent fired by the tank. It has no control over the seekers being fired. <br />So you dont use the BS of the tank to fire the Seeker.<br /><br />Seekers can only be fired from Markerlight hits, and per the markerlight rules the seeker always hits at BS5, otherwise you would just get a direct hit everytime.<br />That hasnt changed, and shouldnt have been changed.<br /><br />TBH, this seeker debate is a tad pointless.Death Korps of Warhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18361028265149932443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6638616785966104829.post-68204856994279791502012-07-05T23:30:31.886+01:002012-07-05T23:30:31.886+01:00@Zob - true, so a situation comes up where you rol...@Zob - true, so a situation comes up where you roll off, as the Nid FAQ tells us (2 opposing set values, BS1 vs BS5) though I'd be inclined to say Codex> BRB and give Seekers BS5 against Flyers.<br /><br />Doesn't affect normal shots though.TheKing Elessarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04981821487098781957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6638616785966104829.post-13789310403608356972012-07-05T23:22:07.872+01:002012-07-05T23:22:07.872+01:00Yes, but thats always been the case with Seekers.
...<i>Yes, but thats always been the case with Seekers.</i><br /><br />Still rules are clear, if a vehicle wants to shoot anything when it's stunned it does so according to snap shot rules i.e. bs counts as 1. now if markerlights and snap shot had equal priority there would be a roll off. If snap shot had the priority shot would resolve at BS1. But it resolves at BS5 so markerlights take priority. <br /><br />Plus, although everyone assumes that, wording of markerlight rules does not modify "model"s BS.zobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10715413225081718476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6638616785966104829.post-54222464852941762852012-07-05T18:07:34.053+01:002012-07-05T18:07:34.053+01:00Yes, but thats always been the case with Seekers.
...Yes, but thats always been the case with Seekers.<br />The seeker tracks its target down when launched, which is why it hits at BS5.<br /><br />What he was talking about was the interaction between the Markerlight upgrading the BS of a model using Snap Fire from BS1 to whatever.<br /><br />Personally, I have found nothing in the rules that says that explicitly says, one way or another, Markers cant be used to upgrade the BS of Snap Fire (i.e a phrase that says that the BS1 cant be modified). <br />But according to Stelek and Rick, it cant. But im still finding it hard to see why not.Death Korps of Warhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18361028265149932443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6638616785966104829.post-78988351583017911432012-07-05T17:36:56.583+01:002012-07-05T17:36:56.583+01:00You are wrong about Markerlights though. Tau FAQ s...You are wrong about Markerlights though. Tau FAQ says a vehicle shoots seekers with BS5 therefore overriding snapshot settings.zobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10715413225081718476noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6638616785966104829.post-16409400308993317752012-07-04T20:11:42.024+01:002012-07-04T20:11:42.024+01:00I agree with TGM... banshees... let it ride...
CK...I agree with TGM... banshees... let it ride...<br /><br />CKSplinter https://www.blogger.com/profile/01570072865511086389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6638616785966104829.post-35171109537841339742012-07-04T17:08:36.999+01:002012-07-04T17:08:36.999+01:00I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they nerf ...I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they nerf the banshee mask into just granting the hammer of wrath ability.<br /><br />And I10 AP2, S4! oh no! almost what they had last edition and they were so broken then. /sarcasm. I'd let it fly.TheGraveMindhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02202256201375802641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6638616785966104829.post-42073876368465912042012-07-04T16:44:50.830+01:002012-07-04T16:44:50.830+01:00The Tyranid FAQ says that when you have two contra...The Tyranid FAQ says that when you have two contradictory Set Value Effects, you roll off each time the conflict comes up to determine which takes effect in that Phase.<br /><br />It's in the entry for Lash Whips, but it's phrased as a general commentary on Set Value Effects.WestRiderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12877289116827690457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6638616785966104829.post-87470499596534111222012-07-04T16:19:54.130+01:002012-07-04T16:19:54.130+01:00I'd be inclined to disagree. An axe in general...I'd be inclined to disagree. An axe in general has one cutting edge. This effectively gives you only one method of striking blows, i.e. chopping. A 'chop' strike is dependant wholely on the force applied to the weapon during the swing, and the weight of head of the axe. Thus in order to be truely effective, the distribution of weight of an axe needs to be off centre, i.e the more weight at the top, the more potential damage.<br /><br />Obviously the offset of adding weight to the weapon, particularly in this case were we are adding weight off centre, is a reduction in acceleration of the swing.<br /><br />On the flip side, a sword is lighter than an axe, as the sword is predominately a cutting weapon. For this, the strength and the sharpness of the blade are the relevent factors, and the force applied by the user a secondry concern. As a cutting weapon, the sword gives you a multitude of potential uses, from slashing, stabbing and, indeed, chopping.<br /><br />The balance of a sword is also set in the hilt. This means the weight of the weapon sits directly on top of the users hand, and not two foot away at the end of the weapon in an axe. As a result, the direction of the 'swing' of a sword can be altered and changed with less effort and a greater speed.<br /><br />In summary, a sword will always be quicker at striking than an axe of idential weight, but when used by the same person, the user will be able to exert considerable more force on the object of his strike with an axe over what he would be able to with a sword due to the distribution of weight.<br /><br />thus GW making a distinction between swords and axes is a good thing, as it does bring more realism into the game, and more important some variety. In terms of would it force you to swing as slowly as a Hammer? Well probably as they both function under the same principle of disprortionate weight to add to the force input of the user. Despite the obvious increase in weight of the thunderhammer over a power axe (from the perspective of size on the models) the thunderhammer is wielded in two hands, thus adding more strength to the users swing, and increasing acceleration.<br /><br />So I'd go with yes, GW did get it right on this one. :)<br /><br />As for the original post, I see the difficuly with the Power Axe Banshee, but looking from a rules perspective, the Banshee mask doesn't increase the wearers speed at striking blows, it STUNS the models being charged, thus I'd say it doesn't matter how slow the Banshee is swinging if the target is stood there gauping! Banshee first everytime for me.Rauhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03541288205838663990noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6638616785966104829.post-14462968585890415942012-07-04T15:51:25.694+01:002012-07-04T15:51:25.694+01:00honestly, if the Game designers thing an axe is as...honestly, if the Game designers thing an axe is as hard to swing as a two handed sledge hammer, They've got some physical research to do. I'm really just ignoring the unweildy on axes and using them as regular power weapons. Then again, I don't go to tournies. *shrug*Evanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05508580066647988491noreply@blogger.com