Sunday, 5 July 2009

Army breakdown - advice to a midway list.

hey dude, long time no speak. I've been hot on the old Gaming and I've been updating and hopefully upgrading my army after my games. I was hoping you would be willing to take a look at my latest list, because I know you give great feedback and you know what you're on about better than some of the randomers on the forums here.

-Rune of Witnessing
-Spirit Stones

-Rune of Witnessing
-Spirit Stones

5 Fire Dragons
-Spirit Stones
-Shuriken Cannon

10 Dire Avengers
-Dual Shuriken Catapult
Wave Serpent
-Spirit Stones
-Eldar Missile Launcher

5 Rangers

5 Rangers

10 Warp Spiders
-Dual Death Spinner

Fire Prism
-Spirit Stones

Fire Prism
-Spirit Stones

Total: 1496pts

Basically the Farseer with Doom is with the Dire Avengers and the Farseer with Fortune is with the Fire Dragons to keep them alive hopefully for more than 1 turn. Warp Spiders I've never used before, but after reading about them they look pretty amazing for either anti tank or anti infantry, so I thought I'd give them a go. The Pathfinders are purely for objective based missions, because of their 2+ save in cover

Let me know


First, thanks. It's always nice to recieve a compliment, especially when it's accurate. ;)
I recieved this list via PM on DakkaDakka, from BobDole4eva, a member I list as a friend - he's a decent guy, knows what he's doing. Like us all, he sometimes needs a bit of help, which I'm glad to provide. Now, I refer to this thread as mid-way because it's built on solid principles, it doesn't need radical fixes, like if he was using Swooping Hawks. That's not to say there aren't a lot of things we can choose to do with this list - just that not a lot is required to make it more competitive. If he already has a decent record locally, then advancing his list to uber status overnight (I reckon he'd get the hang of it quickly enough) would merely discourage his locals, and provide neither challenge nor learning curve.

I'm going to break this down, unit selection by unit selection, so this'll be a lengthy post - you may want a beverage. Go on, I'll be right here.

We'll start with HQ. Eldar have 12 HQ choices. Farseers, on foot, are somewhere in the middle of this range. (Techically we have 14, counting foot Farseer and Autarch as seperate from Bike variants)


Awesome Psychic potential
Seer Council
Many options
Ability to tool up for specific role, or generalist

Not Eldrad
Becomes very costly very fast
No good at anything but his prescribed task(s)
Support character, not able to hold the line

Overall, a foot Seer is average for Eldar, which is good for many armies. Now to breakdown Bob's particular ones:

Seer 1 - Doom/Guide: Excellent combo. Against things without an LD10 Psychic Hood, you're laughing.
RoWitnessing - vital, for anyone without an Emboldenlock to hold their hand. Cancels Shadow in the Warp, mitigates damage from enemy RoWarding, very cheap for its job, only marginally increases Perils risk.
Spirit Stones - vital for multi-spell Seers, though expensive and possibly overcosted slightly. Probably be too cheap if any less though, so no real issue with cost here.

Seer 2 - Guide/Fortune: Another nice combo. Fortune is awesome, especially on your transport, or Pathfinders.
RoWit, SS - see above.

Issues so far - one of these guys badly needs RoWard - these keep enemy Psykers off your back so much it's barely even funny - double Lash is it? Take a Perils a turn please.
No Seer Council. Not a flaw in of itself, especially at this points level, but a waste of potential. Fluffy, but not Fall causing.

Unconventionally - Heavy Support next.

2 Prisms with Stones. :D Awesome in principle - although drop the Stones. Without Holo-Fields they won't be anywhere near as reliable as required at competitive play. This also frees up the ponits for RoWard - a tangible bonus. SS only work 1/6 of the time, rarely is it better to miss something not there than take it to be sure, but this is one of those times. As much fire as they will attract, that's fire diverted away from the other things hitting them repeatedly in the face. Falcon to transport Dragons. Ah. Spirit Stones are far better on this, as it has a Transport capacity. Sadly, you didn't seem to have the points to take a better turret weapon...this is a big failing - as a lone Falcon has to work so much harder to justify its presence. It needs to fill a gap the Prisms struggle at - tank hunting. Obviously, with a squad 5 FDs inside, shouldn't be a problem, but it may be. You have to get mighty close to let rip with Melta fun - and then the Dragons die. Falcons would be happier S8 sniping transports from a fair distance, then only getting close for the kill - at 1500 having enough firepower to make this work properly is too hard to really bother with. It can be done. but it's needlessly complicated. It also loses out on the cheaper 3rd Prism you could have selected.

The Elites: The Dragons themselves. 5 of them is great, perfect squad size. An Exarch, though, in't good. Better taking 6 than 4+Exarch. :) Exarchs in general are overcosted, and worthless.

Fast Attack: I'm no fan of Eldar FA choices, they all suck balls. Warp Spiders are the best though. The reasons you outlined above are more than enough to beat the suckfest that is Hawks. Exarch is good here - Assault 4 S6 weaponry is always good, even if AP-. -1 to Damage roll, & shooting at squadron means 6's to kill, after getting only even SM Dreads are buggered in the front.

Finally; Troops.

Number - 3 choices. Good. 3 Troops is a solid number at 1500. I recommend 1 for every 500 points, or part thereof. Issues with Troops - 2 units of Pathfinders is either overkill, or woefully unimpressive. One unit of 5 holds an objective just as well when they can't see and took out the main threat early. Even if they kill very little, they'll take a disproportionate amount of firepower to down.

Dire Avengers: Why full size? Why Exarch? Why Bladestorm?!? These things look good on paper, but Eldasr can't take a turn of enemy shooting if on foot and don't have an invulnerable on their profile. Even Wraithguard are going to get felled by weight of fire. If this unit was dropped to half, just 5 basic guys, that's 92 more points to play with. Drop a squad of Pathy's too and you get 120+92= 212 - enough for another DAVU Serpent, with Bright Lance! :)

Speaking of Lances, you may not find you need them too much right now for penetrating armour, but, trust me, you will, and soon.

You'll still have the requisiste 3 Troops, with a Serp replacing 5 Pathys. Pathys are great at MC splatting (ish) and at holding cover against anything without S4+ and 2+ shots, or a flamer weapon. Serps are immune to S5 down, and aren't nearly as scared of Melta as most vehicles. Doom being used in concert with Avengers can be very deadly, especiallly against MEQs where the extra wounds really start to tell, but he'd be better trying to help the Pathys out, or assissting the Spiders. Obviously he can't keeep pace with Spiders, so he should still ride in a Serp with someone else. I've always foound Fortune to be wasted n Dragons, you don't expect, or need, them to come back from their mission - in the same vein, any Farseer that accompanies them will also die - Guide and a Singing Spear for him, or replace with PW/FG/MB Autarch.

Like I said, a list that needs tweaked, not overhauled. You know what you're trying to achieve, but not quite there with the whole list - hopefully this helps. :D
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