This is my most recent tourney list. I saw what you wrote about small troop squads and its nice to see another person plays troops (at least in that sense) the same way. The question I ask myself about my list is how much I need the 6 plague marine squad but I cant really find anything that is better then 5 plague marines with 2 melta in a rhino with a combi melta that can score. After much play testing I moved from all 6 melta squads to 4 melta and 2 plasma and this feels a lot better as now my objective campers can have 24 inch range. I have found the vindicator to be a decent choice over a third obliterator squad as it can crack a land raider from 24 inches pretty good and ordnance makes them spread out and combos with lash and they are a good deal cheaper then a obliterator squad. Any changes you would do at 2k points?
Daemon Prince
Wings
Mark of Slannesh
Lash of Submission
155
Daemon Prince
Wings
Mark of Slannesh
Lash of Submission
155
Plague Marine (5)
Melta Gun (2)
Rhino
Combi Melta
180
Plague Marine (5)
Melta Gun (2)
Rhino
Combi Melta
180
Plague Marine (5)
Melta Gun (2)
Rhino
Combi Melta
180
Plague Marine (5)
Melta Gun (2)
Rhino
Combi Melta
180
Plague Marine (5)
Twin Linked Boltgun
Plasma Gun(2)
Rhino
185
Plague Marine (5)
Plasma Gun(2)
Rhino
Combi Plasma
190
Obliterators (3)
225
Obliterators (3)
225
Chaos Vindicator
Daemonic Possession
145
HQ 310
Troop 1095
Heavy 595
2000
Pretty solid, but there are several things I would recommend:
No CC element. Kharn?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
6 Squads possibly overkill when 5 slightly larger squads more effective when the Rhinos die, and they will.
Warptime MoN Princes > LoS MoS Princes - more flexibilty, more utility against Mech, more likely to splat a Dreadnought.
I think I would tweak the list so I had 4 or 5 PM Rhino Squads with 7 men apiece, and a Fist. The extra Bolters are the extra a-i punch you can do with, and the Fists grant a versatility that is slightly lacking at the moment.
The Oblits have to provide all of the ranged fire here, which is something I'm not entirely comfy with, but is sadly a requirement of Chaos. I suppose, as highly as I do rate them, I find it hard to get over the fact that they're just Infantry in the end, and I once used a Deff Rolla to splat 2 of them, causing much hilarity, but only for me.
In the end, the list is good, but Chaos suffers more and more exponentially with every point above 1850.
:)
PS - Sorry it's taken so long to get this up - I thought my analysis would be longer and postponed until I had more time to devote to it, only to find it disappointingly short. Hopefully you can hit me with some feedback, and a dialogue can ensue. I know my other regular visitors are never shy with their opinions either. :p
4 comments:
I gotta concur with Elessar on the fists, and note one more thing:
Plague Marines are Fearless. Which means they WILL stay in assault with a Carnifex or other big beastie they simply cannot kill until it splats them all.
With Chaos, you're in it to win it with cult troops and assault. Either make it a small expendable unit (the 5-man melta thing) or the 7ish man fist squad of happiness. The fist won't save you from dedicated melee crushers like TH/SS terminators, but it's at least versatility, MC repellant, and anti-tank.
I'm also with him on the Nurgle > Slaanesh princes.
Lash is such a force multiplier for Chaos that putting Lash on your Princes is a great way to lose both lash and the princes.
They're about your only assaulty choice in the army without extra fists, and with Lash? The enemy will either be mechanized and ignore them, or will simply pop them because they're a swift threat. The Nurgle Warptime prince is at least a bit nastier to take down with small arms, and warptime makes it stick in melee. As cool as Lash is, it won't do you a bit of good for half the game against mechanized enemies. Can't Lash that Rhino/Chimera/what-have-you.
I don't have much else to offer, other than it's what you get with Chaos. It's either massed Oblits, or taking Predators and Oblits to fill the holes for long range support. I think I've seen Dakka + Bunker Preds with Oblits as the swiss army config. Different vulnerability than the Oblits, but, eh. It's chaos, what're you gonna do?
I disagree with what seems to have become a stock response to CSM lists featuring Lash princes: replace the lash princes.
Lash princes are still one of the best HQ options in Codex:CSM.
I do agree that the prevalence of mech has taken Lash down a peg, but certainly not so much that a MoN Warptime Prince is always the better option.
Contrary to popular netbelief, not every army, even in tournaments, is fully mech to the point where there is no suitable target for an early-game lash.
Even when the enemy is 100% mechanized, they go right back to being lash-vulnerable as soon as you pop them out of their transports. If you can't do that, you're dead in the water anyway.
Yes lash princes make great big juicy targets and get shot back to pieces if you leave them in the open. So here's a tip: don't do that.
Also note that if they other team is shooting at your princes they're NOT shooting at your rhinos and oblits... which is probably a good thing. Lash princes are great big "look at me!" attention whores. Use that to your advantage.
-GK
Yes, but they can't use Lash in CC, and, as I stated, the list has ZERO CC elements. As a result, they need to change. :)
Yes, the list has zero CC elements. I agree that has to change, but that doesn't mean the princes have to be that change.
Switching them out for WT MoN princes is only a slight upgrade in the list's overall CC potential.
Instead, I'd drop one squad of plague marines and an obliterator to pick up a unit of 8 berzerkers w/ fist in a rhino, then replace the vindicator with a defiler (AC+3DCCW).
Both the zerkers and the defiler have excellent synergy with the lash princes, and both are amazing counter-charge units.
Just keep that battlecannon away from the plagues.
-GK
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