Wednesday 17 March 2010

A reply to the Rant...

Hmm seeing we are useless (the silent lurkers who are meant to be contributing to Mind War here for the beloved TKE yet don't) I have decided to make a post and I will take a slightly differing view from my celebrated companion on his latest rant.


I have played since 89. I have seen GW evolve and like TKE I don't always like what I see. For me the game long ago stopped being about Toy Soldiers and became more about a hobby and as I am sure some of the readers here will agree at times became more than a hobby and became an escape from other things going on in my life. (Sad eh?)

The state of the game today in 2010, seems to be one of flux. In one camp you have the tournament style player, who is playing at a serious level, enjoys their game and is playing competitively to make a list that will give them the edge in the next big tournament. Next you have what I call the "store lurker". These are the people the hobby could really do without and honestly I think the game could do without too. They are always there at the LHS or at your GW. They will have strong opinions on everything from GW to what is the hot new list. They usually and I am generalizing have few modeling skills and even less painting skills. However they dominate the local shop and for some of us, make the experience of playing at a friendly level against a random opponent on a lazy saturday afternoon intolerable at best. They also tend to think that the fact they have 5,000 points of necrons or whatever it happens to be, they must be good. The next group is probably where I fit in, the old warhorse brigade. We have played since day 1, or at least RT issue and as time has gone on we have lost most of our regular gaming group or have taken extended breaks from the hobby and come and go, but usually return at some stage. We love a friendly game, but also like as much the social and hobby aspect as playing. If your over 30, playing and sit there painting on weekends or week nights once a week or so and maybe have a child your introducing to the hobby... then this is probably you too. We tend not to get into rules arguments or debates and if your a very early Gen Xer like myself.... you are bewildered by how some people can post 12 times over a deathrolla ruling saying the same thing. The last general group is the young gamer of the 2010+ brigade who is between 13 and 16 and decides, hmmm whats all this then... lets grab a copy of AOBR and see what happens.

Gw is catering to such a broad spectrum of players today than it did 20 years ago and unfortuantely it has created its own worst enemy situation. My esteemed colleague here, who's blog I do read.... (as I do think he contributes more than ranting...) is a frustrated man. Do you blame him? He wants rules that are clear and fair, but also broad enough to create an individual list or theme army to play with in his chosen setting, that can be competitive. (I am sure dear reader, that TKE probably has a Swooping Hawk squad somewhere.... and although he may not admit it, he probably would love to play with them, but he sees them as next to useless in the current format). TKE is not what I would consider to be an ultra hard core gamer. He knows his stuff, he knows how to play, he can compete at a high level and probably walk away with a serious win from a skilled opponent. He researches, and he has several armies.

I on the other hand, would love rules that are clear but I am happy to pay for more and more fluff! I don't care how competitive I am, in fact I am probably more than competitive personally against an opponent than some tournament players. But its a matter of perspective. Is me playing with a full guard infantry army in 5th edition competitive? No... but is it pushing how I learn and play? Do I know more about movement, LOS and can say that gap is 8 inches from 5 ft away? without a second glance? Yes. Can I whip some local so called experts with whats not the best fit for IG at the moment? Yes. I want clear rules too, but as I am non tournament for the main part if something is unclear unlike my dear friend here, I am happy to throw down a d6 and say cool roll then....

GW has done this why? Why don't they bring out an update quickly enough? or answer the damn questions that prevail the net?

Probably because they are blind to it. It really is that simple. Look at the GW development staff, do you honestly think RT or 2nd edition had less holes? I have 3,500 points of current Ultramarine Terminators that tell me otherwise.... (2nd edition, no FOC was there). So why don't they fix things? Well for one, we really have no forum to express it. GW doesn't have offical forums like World of Warcraft that get looked at by mods. The people responsible for writting something are not held accountable for it by a bunch of freaks using unoffical forums to post their frustration. GW is also not likely to listen to its Store Management either..... they are money making machines.... leave the creativity to those who best know how is probably how they see it.

So why don't they listen to the masses about rules? Don't you think this would make sense? For those of us who can see it, clearly yes. But for GW they cannot see it. They probably never will. For all its hype the tournament scene changes within 12 months of what is effective. Give it 1 year and lash is defeated utterly as a way to fight, give it 2 years and it will be replaced by another, give it 3 and its not worth mentioning. Things come and go, GW is aware of that. And its largest market is the 16 year old who buys AOBR. They don't care in the first six months of their experience if a full mech IG army vetran force with Inq allies is going to wipe them out. The player will either stick around and learn and adapt and begin anew or they will leave the game.

Thats the crisis which will develop with GW and its mindset, that "store lurker" that I have described, the guy who has to be an expert on everything will drive the younger semi awkward 16 year old into becoming one of them... joining the pack or destroy the gaming experience for them. Eventually the games store will become so dominated by them, that it will create a situation in which nobody is happy. The old warhorses like me, will find other mature gamers and if we don't we fiddle with terrain and painting and whatever else we do. The semi serious gamer like TKE however bears the entire brunt of it. They play fairly competitively with competitive lists and they are faced with a bunch of know it alls on forums or casual players to compete against and it alienates them. Bad move GW..... your killing your market by not making your answers clear and easy to understand and timely for your FAQ. As for the tournament player.... they are both the best and worst of it. They are usually fairly friendly.... but alas they also suffer elitism at times. 20 years ago you never sent your minatures to Poland to be completed to a standard that makes Renoir look like a fool. Today you do supposedly. Tournament players also tend to be fairly clicky.... breaking into that group requires two things. A great painted army and then the ability to whip one of them at a few games. This will get you on the inside so to speak. But they rarely frequent the local GW anymore as its full of the store lurkers....

I hope the above post gives some insight into why I think GW just can't see what we all do. Maybe they should be taking more note of what we think as players. As one thing even the myself, the 16 year old noob, and the store lurker can all agree on... we would all like some clarity.

Note to TKE, if your going to kiss me (kissses). I should warn you, I bite.

5 comments:

Zzzzzz said...

I think that it has much more to do with being driven as a business; For instance, Notts City Council has imposed a requirement for companies in their catchment area to either pay for their own parking places or pass that charge onto their employees. So for a long time I suspect that the main topic of discussion in Lenton was car parking, rather than "where is 40k going ?". Looking at the products put out (CoD, Apoc, Planetfail, Missions) GW is obviously taking 40k towards narrative games/campaigns, quite simply because they will sell more product. No brainer for the business. It's not that they don't care about tournaments and tournament players, but like a car manufacturer, Formula One is not where the money is, volume sales is. Formula One/tournaments are just a nice showcase of bling and performance.

TheKing Elessar said...

An excellent article, and I thank you for it.

Regarding Hawks - indeed, one of my favourite pieces of painting by myself is a Hawk Exarch, the original - and I'd dearly love to paint a squad in the same scheme to bring them up to today (and, frankly, much better painting standard) but there's simply no point - so the 2 squads I bought when I bought the Dex sit in their boxes. When this Eldar Dex came out, I spent well over £100 on models to go with it - I wanted to build a shiny new Eldar army...but most of them aren't painted, if even constructed. My Guardians sit half finished in a case, never seeing the light of day. My Avatar...hell, I don't even know where it is! My Wraithlords, they gather dust too - and I have about 20 Wraithguard somewhere, some still in their blisters.
Regarding 'dicing for it' - this is fine within a friendly game...but for me it's unacceptable in a tournament situation. In a friendly game, even, I should point out that I prefer to discuss with the opponent why they think it works 'x' way, and why I believe 'y' and come to some sort of agreement that doesn't involve blind luck. I've literally spent hours just discussing the finer points of rules, especially LOS, with people. I get easily frustrated though, by people misreading, or simply not reading, the rules - reading comprehension is important in life, nevermind toy soldiers.

Finally, regarding fluff - I love it. I've read all the Heresy books up until Tales, and admittedly nto it because then I'll get the bug again, and read A Thousand Sons. I don't want to read it yet, because i couldn't stand waiting another year or whatever for Prospero Burns - a tale that I wanted to read since reading the story of a mutated TS returning to Prospero (garrisoned by Ultramarines at the time) to prepare it for Magnus dragging it into the EoT, at the back of the 2nd Ed Rule Book (pretty sure it was the RB...but it MAY have been the Codex Imperialis...)
There is no aspect of the hobby I don't enjoy to some extent - but this is a large part of why I don't agree with Tournaments trying to force any aspect of the hobby on people - it's supposed to be fun, not seen as a chore.

Flekkzo said...

There is nothing stoping GW from getting feedback, other companies in the business does that. There are also no reason why they can't make better (in this case clearer) rules. Other comapnies does that AND there are several BIG univesities in England who has professors in both English and Logic (but not often both in the same person) that could clear up the rules something fantastic in just a few settings.

But to sum up the problems I see with GWs output:
*Uneaven support of different armies
*WD is poor. They could release new units through WD, and then mass test their rules to finally release them in a codex.
*Timing is poor. The age difference between the newest and oldest codex is huge!
*There are certain balancing problems that is far from unfixable. There are units who clearly aren't useful. They need fixing. Again, WD is a great vehicle for this (The Legion of the damned page with their rules in WD looked awesome btw).

Doesn't sound like it can't be fixed right?

About people ruining the game. People ruin everything to be honest. There are so many know it alls and dumb-asses out there. I think many of them are insecure and angry inside. Show them that there is a better way. Nothing beats being a good role model (OK, I am not a teenager no more:)).

About points. Play what you enjoy. Why couldn't 500 or 1000 also be fun? Sure the missions sucks for it, but why not make your own?

I think anyone complaining about tournament missions and setups should write their own and publish on the net. Improve the hobby by doing positive things.

Damn I am ranting!

Also, I paint my army, fully, in yellow, and right now I am only hobbying. No games:( And I think that there is space in wargaming for everything between fluff and hard core, balls to the walls, red ones go fastah, play to win tournies.

Zenos said...

Thankyou for feedback, I am a definite ranter.... However I am old and I see it as a right to snarl at children and misplace my false teeth etc.

Cheers Guys.

Alexious/Zenos.

Cyklown said...

Well, they had a forum at one point. Gamesdev was a good idea. Said shop lurkers and the whiner brigade (of which we're all sometimes guilty). There was good stuff there, but I think GW saw the normal forum antics, didn't realize that forums are madhouses and closed it down.

Heck, I'm fairly sure they stopped hosting official specialist games websites too.



Part of the fury isn't the stuff they fail at, but the stuff that they didn't even remotely have to do a bad job at. Combat Patrols were actually fun in a silly way, and while decided casual they still were fairly ballanced. Kill Team was an awesome =][= like game. They somehow combined the two into an unballanced wreck. They didn't really need to do it. They just used it for filler. Now we're stuck with it.

I guess one last gripe is not paying attention to the metagame. I mean, sure, it shifts, but people started putting things in metal boxes right before 5th. Now it's the norm. But when GW see's that and decides to get onboard we hear that Eldar are getting a variant of the worst artillery piece that they get on a hover platform. If they're going to give an army one new model and then ignore it for a while then making something with all the power of swooping hawks only in a FOC slot that's already jam-packed just seems asinine. They don't make many Eldar models because they worry they won't sell, and then this happens?

Disclaimer.

Primarily, a blog to discuss the Games Workshop system Warhammer 40k, though not exclusively so. All GW IP used without permission, no challenge intended.

Pretty much everything here is my opinion. If you don't like my opinion, you are welcomed to say so. If you don't like me, but like my opinion, feel free to say so. If you don't like me or my opinion, I don't need to hear it. Why even visit?