One thing I find very difficult dealing with people on the Internet I don't know, is how far to take my responses.
When you get to know people better, like, say, me with Farmpunk, Sandwyrm, MVB, Brent, Kirby, Stelek or Dethtron, I kinda know how far I can be abrasive without actually offending them - this is a good situation to be in - it's never (or rarely :p ) my intent to offend, and being able to say, earnestly "this army sucks" or, "that's kinda cheating" is reassuring. Not too long ago, I criticised both Dethtron and Lauby's deployments in a Vassal game they had (although I found presenting a better one much more difficult on the map than in my head!) - but this was fine because they took it the right way.
Other internet personalities may not necessarily take me the right way (no homo) and certainly 'non-personalities' may take me too personally without me presenting myself any differently. Case in point, I once criticised something Fritz did in a video BatRep (no clue what it was now, lol) and, while he saw my point, I was jumped upon in the comments.
The reason this comes to mind, is because I am watching a video batrep right now, and I think both armies deployments was abysmal...especially the platyer going second. Target Priority and movement both bad, lists were bad too...but even with those and some admittedly poor luck (balanced by some good, to be fair!) I don't know how, how much, or even WHETHER to go for an attempt to commentate.
I'm not going to shame the players involved by linking it, and, with them being in the UK, I certainly don't want to start any Ego-Wars or Penis Comparisons, because one of us could easily fly to the other and I might lose out, despite being a better 40k player! ;-) Mostly, I jest, but I have no intention of pissing them off.
What do yuo suggest?
Should I be brutally honest with them? I can do this IRL much more easily, because they can hear my tone etc and not think I'm being patronising, even if I am. It's not worth a flight (even if I found out their club etc) to try and remonstrate, so demonstrate? Do I pack my case and fly over to teach them a wargaming lesson? Well, I still haven't go any ID, because I'm ridiculously lazy and cannot fly without it...but flying to them to prove my superiority so they take my advice? Ridiculous, expensive (even by this Hobby's standards!) and a bit pathetic.
Where do I start (IF I do) in trying to help these players?
I wouldn't have this issue so much if one didn't play Eldar (badly...)
NOTE - If either of the people involved happen to read this, please note the tone and consideration of the post, rather than storming into your comments. If friends of the people involved read this, don't feel torn over telling them - either don't in case it DOES hurt their feelings, or DO, because it's better they read it themselves than overhear a half-true version of how I was slagging them off.
The way I see it, if you care enough to have a blog about it, and BatReps on the blog, then you care enough to appreciate help, even if you don't appreciate being told you need it.
- And, no, before any of you start, the Eldar player isn't Fritz, Blackmoor, Reecius or anyone else who ISN'T BRITISH. lol
8 comments:
My question is, did they ask for help or feedback? Obviously an argument is that by posting a battle report to the internet is inviting feedback, good or bad. My own suggestion is an email starting, "Out of curiosity, why did you deploy X or Y..."
I personally don't mind advice because I know I'm no tactical genius, but when players walk up out of the blue and start saying things that make me feel belittled, then I disintigrate them on the spot and they no longer can prattle in my ear.
It pretty much boils down to common courtesy, which sadly the internet seems to make some people forget.
TKE I would not worry too much about it. The only thing I would check to see if they are use to people being "brutally honest" because you cannot possibly know if they can handle what you have to say. Just remember to throw in some complements of what they did right.
HG raises a good point regarding feedback but you post something online, expect to get feedback. There's still a huge difference from saying "this sucked. you need to do this and this and this" compared to "have you thought of doing this" or "why did you do that" etc. Recall Taak's silly post on YTTH in relation to a game we watched on Vassal.
The biggest thing I think when explinaing things or advising people is explaining the why. This is what I wanted to do with 3++ and even if I'm asked to review shit lists, I'm not going to say they are shit and to do X, Y and Z to fix it. Rather I try to explain why it's bad and why X, Y and Z are better choices, etc.
In the end as long as you explain why and where you are coming from (i.e. on Warseer/Dakka/etc say something like 'from a competitive standpoint...') and aren't directly attacking said individuals, say what you like really.
Good views so far, thank you. :)
Yeah... I'd be somewhat pissed if someone I didn't know just came on my site and told me my shit was wrong, but didn't explain why in a coherent manner.
That being said, there's nothing wrong with good solid arguments that contradict what I have to say- I'm happy to hear that sort of thing.
One thing I personally hate are generalizations such as 'a good 'nids list would beat your list' etc. Say why it would beat it please.
Your level of response cost you your account on warseer.
Oh Noes! I can has ban?
Interesting,
How far to go?
Isn't that the real question of the internet regardless of the subject?
I find myself constantly stepping on toes or treading too lighlty with my responsabilities on another site. For me, an older, crankier, taking things too seriously guy... I struggle.
You? You don't struggle. I find your words clear here and on other sites. I think that what you are doing is just fine.
I would give opinion on the video bat-rep. Be honest but not overbearing. Be precise but not critical. Talk to them as if you were friends. Like me, you'll never please everyone. I'm , sure though you already know this.
Your trying to help, not be the southern end of a north bound horse. If people can't read that from your words then... it's typically not your fault in the message.
CK
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