I'm right in the middle of typing another article, and suddenly, i'm thinking about Fire Warriors, and sometihng Kirby and I discussed last night, the prospect of making them Relentless.
Now, I hadn't actually thought of this, and the idea intriuiged me, so I didn't express much consternation - in the cold light of day, however, this seems like less of a good idea.
Firstly, they have a 30" range. That makes it entirely possible to walk away, trying to keep 30" between them and the foe - not something I really like the idea of. While I am as firm an advocate of Mechanised forces for 40k as anyone (the idea of fighting in the 41st Millennium on foot with swords is largely ridiculous, kthnxbai) I don't want to shit on Foot Armies that hard - having S5 that they will never get to reach before T4, that then moves forward and Double Taps them with 60+ S5 shots? In addition to all the Heavy weaponry they dumped on you in preceding turns? Ugh.
This also led me to thinking "But, Rick, you advocate the Necrons becoming Relentless. How is this THAT different?"
Well, internal voice, it's like this. The Necron Warriors would have Assault 1 18" guns, so they would be encouraged to...no...wait...that kinda works, and it's nice that Necrons would try desperately to stay out of combat...but it doesn't fit with the implacable advance they are supposed to be making at you.
What if...
What if, the Gauss rule received a radical rewrite.
What if being Gauss carried a value, for instance, Gauss Rifles were [24" range] Gauss 5, and Heavy Gauss Cannons were Gauss 3 (Gauss Cannons being Gauss 4, Particle Whip could be Gauss 2)
This would then be broken down thusly - the Gauss Value would equate to the AP value of the weapon, but it would decrease for every 6" closer to the enemy. This would mean Gauss Rifles at 24" would be the stated value, AP5, and at 12", when Tapping, it would be 12" closer, which is a value of 2 away from 5 = AP3 at 12" range. Butchers Sisters of Battle, which is good, no? Even better, if a Squad of Terminators was somehow 6" away and not in combat? (And didn't have Storm Shields...) Well, Double-Tapping with AP2 weapons = win, no Gets Hot to deal with. Awesome.
This rule gives a CLEAR benefit and incentive for Necrons to advance upon the foe, which I love...the only question is - do they need to go down from 24" range anyway? Being able to reach out across the board for 3 turns as stuff advances is potentially 'urk'.
I'm not entirely sure how to use this rule to make them able to kill tanks with basic infantry though. Considering something Vibro Cannon-esque, where a unit of Necron Warriors firing at a vehicle, the weapon's S become the number of models that hit. Thoughts on either?
12 comments:
I'm not sure why everyone seems to be of the mind that basic troop choices should be able to hurt armor. A basic dudesman with the standard weapon in any army shouldn't be an anti-tank threat at all. We buy marines (of multiple stripes) meltaguns or tank-cracking heavy weapons, IG rely on HWTs or meltas, Eldar can have support platforms, Pink horrors can buy bolt, etc...but the key is that an additional cost is incurred. Any kind of focused fire ability like you mentioned should be a purchasable upgrade, and definitely not a comes-as-standard enhancement.
I'm not sure that over complicating the Gauss Rule is the best way to handle it's loss of ability.
It should go back to being as effective as it was in 4rth ed. "How?" you say?
Roll a 6 and it's an immediate glance (as normal) and all rolls against the vehicle damage chart have +1 added to the roll.
Well Jason, which bit is overcomplicated? The second ability?
If the first, I can't agree I'm afraid. :(
While your idea has merit, it makes it too easy for Necrons to simply shut down Mechanised lists at distance, unless you then limit them to 12/18" range.
what about...
Gauss weapon
When firing at a vehicle any roll of a 6 to penetrate inflicts an automatic glancing hit.
At half range or less the AP of the weapon is reduced by 1 and against vehicles the attack receives a +1 bonus to the damage chart.
Strength 4 gauss weapons now have the ability to outright kill a tank at close range, and there is an incentive to close against infantry targets.
TBH though the point is moot, Necron players aren't closing because the get pwned in combat and wiped out in the pursuit. Until that is sorted you're gonna have a hard time to convince a necron player to close to <12"
Oh yeah? :P
(though, in order to maximise feedback on the three comments already top of the front page, with a mere 5 comments between them, it will be scheduled but not published right away. You, as an author here, will be able to read it in advance though.)
Another Necron post, coming right up...
My concern is that this might give the necrons too much of a buffer zone - it would be hard for many assault units to get close to them without being absolutely shredded... oh course there would be ways to counteract it, but it would still be a little OP for basic troops I thnk...
"While your idea has merit, it makes it too easy for Necrons to simply shut down Mechanised lists at distance, unless you then limit them to 12/18" range"
Actually this is exactly how Gauss weapons functioned in 4rth ed. Roll a 6 on the Pen roll and you get a Glancing Hit and roll on that specific chart. The Glance chart in 4rth is almost exactly the same as the 5th ed chart with a -1.
This means that the standard gauss weapon is glancing ALL vehicles with only a -1 on the chart. In 4th ed a standard squad of warriors was a HUGE threat to a Land Raider because rolling a 6 on a glance still killed the vehicle.
In 5th ed, transports aren't coffins AND the chart became much more friendly to the vehicle owner.
My vote is to let the Necrons push extreme mech-ed armies back into the corner.
"Well Jason, which bit is overcomplicated? The second ability?"
Yes. I don't think it's a bad effect as much as I think it will lead to slower play and confusion.
Jason - I can see your point, but I simply can't see a way to retain that rule while balancing it. All I can figure is making Gauss S5/6 AP- Rending if it does that, and even then...
It feels clunky.
I dunno, I guess I'm not explaining it too well, but I'm not sure how to get across exactly what I want the to do without a much fuller article and army list entry.
I suppose that's what's next then! :P
"...but I simply can't see a way to retain that rule while balancing it."
I guess that's where we're disagreeing. I don't think the original Gauss rule was 'balanced' when it came to vehicles; it made them liabilities on the table because even a str 4 weapon had a chance to wreck it. Hell, a 20man squad of Warriors in Rapid Fire was probably the BEST way to reliably suppress/destroy a vehicle and it didn't matter if you were AV 10 or AV 14.
In this Mech heavy world of 5th ed, I think a return to how Gauss worked in 4rth "balances" things nicely.
Ah, ok. Well, I certainly agree it wasn't balanced before! lol
That said, I don't see an imbalance at the moment - it's not perfect, of course, but it's good. I would even say that if there IS an imbalance, better it be in favour of Mech than against, both to sell more and greater variety of product for GW and keep the coffers being filled - thus giving us more shiny new toys each year to play with - but also for simple 'realism'...armies don't fuck around IRL and avoid transport vehicles because RPGs exist. :)
I think Necrons should step away from the MEQ template a little, and adopt the Xenos approach to tank-busting, in that it's more their Heavy and Elite sections doing the busting...though Destroyers are FA, ofc. But in principle, rather than by simply slapping Melta weapons on Troops.
Give them a chance, but not a great one...and almost auto-suppress IS great, despite the pitiful odds of claiming a kill.
I get what you're saying about them being the equivalent of Melta with a +1 all the time.
How about this...
Gauss: On a "To Pen" roll of a six will cause a glancing hit unless the result would have been better. All Glancing hits vs vehicles will be resolved with only a -1 to the chart.
This means that penetrating hits are treated as normal, while they're generating lots of glancing hits with a higher instance of damage allowed.
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