Anyway, I was asked (several times, to be fair, because I forgot to make a timely reply) how one would go about making an Imperial Guard army on a budget, so this is the list I have come up with that would sort-of be cheaper (financially) than perhaps I would ideally run.
That said, I haven't bothered to check how expensive this IS exactly, but I have no illusions that it'd be cheaper than getting a pile of Vendettas.
Troops:
Veterans;
3 Meltaguns, Demolitions, Chimera - 185
Veterans;
3 Meltaguns, Demolitions, Chimera - 185
Veterans;
3 Meltaguns, Chimera - 155
Veterans;
3 Meltaguns, Chimera - 155
Platoon:
PCS;
4 Flamers, Kraks, Chimera - 110
Infantry Squad 1;
Lascannon, Sniper Rifle - 75
Infantry Squad 2;
Lascannon, Sniper Rifle - 75
Heavy Weapons Squad;
3 Autocannons - 75
Heavy Weapons Squad;
3 Autocannons - 75
HWS;
3 Mortars - 60
HWS;
3 Mortars - 60
Special Weapons Squad;
3 Meltaguns - 65
Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Exterminator;
Exterminator Autocannon - 150
Leman Russ Exterminator;
Exterminator Autocannon - 150
Manticore;
Heavy Bolter - 160
HQ:
Lord Commissar;
Camo Cloak, Chimera - 135
Fast Attack:
Armoured Sentinel;
Missile Launcher - 65
Armoured Sentinel;
Missile Launcher - 65
SWS steals the Commissar's Chimera...Suppose DoW would be an issue with so many HWS though. Ponder, ponder...
I'm not entirely convinced they aren't too much of a detriment (despite being damn cheap, and something I consider well worth an adequate period of testing) so out goes they, and out goes the Armoured Sentinels, both to free up the FoC better, and of course to give us more points. Two-hundred and fifty points, to be precise, which funnily enough is the exact amount required to replace those 4 units with 2 nice little armoured vehicles to add to our 2 Russes, a Manticore, and 6 Chimeras (and 9 tanks at 2k doesn't fell enough, no chance!)
"BUT WHICH ARMOURED UNITS, TKE?!" - I hear you cry...
Observe. The final list.
HQ:
Lord Commissar;
Camo Cloak, Chimera - 135
Troops:
Veterans;
3 Meltaguns, Demolitions, Chimera - 185
Veterans;
3 Meltaguns, Demolitions, Chimera - 185
Veterans;
3 Meltaguns, Chimera - 155
Veterans;
3 Meltaguns, Chimera - 155
Platoon:
PCS;
4 Flamers, Kraks, Chimera - 110
Infantry Squad 1;
Lascannon, Sniper Rifle - 75
Infantry Squad 2;
Lascannon, Sniper Rifle - 75
Heavy Weapons Squad;
3 Autocannons - 75
Heavy Weapons Squad;
3 Autocannons - 75
Special Weapons Squad;
3 Meltaguns - 65
Fast Attack:
Devil Dog;
Heavy Flamer, Smoke Launchers - 125
Devil Dog;
Heavy Flamer, Smoke Launchers - 125
Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Exterminator;
Exterminator Autocannon - 150
Leman Russ Exterminator;
Exterminator Autocannon - 150
Manticore;
Heavy Bolter - 160
TOTAL: 2000
Well, Imperial Guard Commanders and various listwriters? Can you come up with a cheaper IG list that's still pretty decent?
11 comments:
Impressive, say what you like about the imperial guard codex, but it still produces some of the most interesting, challenging and exciting lists. On mortars, I cannot recommend large number enough, not good in kill point games, but in groups of 15, these boys can really bite against anything below terminators. Space marines gt chewed up and pinned a lot and the weapons are vastly underestimated. Apart from considering this, I agree with everything above - very healthy.
The Devil Dog isint really that good. I dont care what other Guard players say, but they arent good.
The fact its a small blast template should scream that to most people.
If you are going to buy things on a budget, your better off just spending the extra £20 getting the Valkyries/Vendettas. You know that there is nothing else in that FoC slot thats worth taking over it.
Replace 1 Exterminator with a Standard Russ.
Why is the SWS in the list?? You intend to put it in the command chimera?? Better off placing it in a Vendetta.
Hell, by getting rid of the Chimera you can afford to get 2 Vendettas.
The PCS can sit either with the infanty squads, that im sure will combine? Or place it next to the autocannon teams.
Get rid of the Snipers and you can afford the Vendettas.
Also, by getting the Vendettas, you can get rid of a Chimera from one of the Vet Squads, saving yet another £20, and use the Vets as they were possibily designed for......Suicide Mission.
Oh and Demolitions isint worth it. As you say yourself, Guard shouldnt charge. So use the 60pts elsewhere on something more useful. Chances are they will be slaughtered before you get to use them anyway.
So it would be like so:
Veterans;
3 Meltaguns - 100
Veterans;
3 Meltaguns, Chimera - 155
Veterans;
3 Meltaguns, Chimera - 155
Veterans;
3 Meltaguns, Chimera - 155
Platoon:
PCS;
4 Flamers, Kraks, - 55
Infantry Squad 1;
Lascannon - 70
Infantry Squad 2;
Lascannon - 70
Heavy Weapons Squad;
3 Autocannons - 75
Heavy Weapons Squad;
3 Autocannons - 75
Special Weapons Squad;
3 Meltaguns - 65
Fast Attack:
Vendetta
Vendetta
Heavy Support:
Leman Russ Battle Tank
Heavy Bolter - 150
Leman Russ Exterminator;
Exterminator Autocannon - 150
Manticore;
Heavy Bolter - 160
I still dont know what i can do with the 60pts saved from the vets, but then thats not up to me.
Oh and you can get rid of the chimera on with the Lord Commie. Not worth it. Just put him in a squad of vets or the infantry squads.
In total you will have 130pts to spend on something. More infantry perhaps??
Stormtroopers?
a Command squad that will have use of a chimera??
Or just for overkill, a third vendetta. One could afford it when the chimeras from the Commie and the suicide vet squad are taken away.
LRBT beats the exterminator, shouldn't mix lascannons and sniper rifles. I'm not a big fan of snipers TBH. Armoured Sentinel with missile launcher? Scout version with autocannon and HK missile is so much better and cheaper to boot.
Running Vets is probably gonna be the cheapest way to do a decent size army.
Suneokun - thanks. :)
Joe - we've already spoken about that all, but I still feel that the Devil Dog is usually underrated - and while it's not as good as a Vendetta it's possibly better for this list given the relative lack of vehicles.
Chris - Beats it on what grounds? It's better vs heavily armoured infantry outside of cover, sure -but it's inferior against lightly armoured vehicles, and against medium ones, at best it's even.
I'm not really a fan of Sniper Rifles either, but can't see a better option for a unit that doesn't really aim to be moving.
As for Armoured vs Scout Sentinels...I'd rather Scouts with Autocannons - actually, I'd rather ACs anyway. But fragile platforms with HKMs feel bad to me - I hate paying for a weapon I (possibly) won't ever get to use like that.
Lack of vehicles or not, its not worth it. You will be better off getting rid of them and a Chimera (Lord commie's preferably) and getting 2 Vendettas.
Financialy your not spending anything you werent going to spend. And gaming wise, your getting 2 useful vehicles that trump all of the other 3.
As for the cover save for the Vendetta issue we had. The Vendetta is meant to destroy the biggest threat to your army then die.
Its survival doesnt really matter. But it will do the job you sent it for........unless your as unlucky as I am...lol.
The DD simply wont do that job for you with the same efficiency.
And an Autocannon is any better??? Str7 doesnt fool anyone.
Most armour in the game is AV12. With Autocannons you need 5s you glance.
With the Battlecannon you need 4s, and you get to roll 2 dice due to the Ordnance Weapon rule.
All the Autocannon has over the Battlecannon is its Rate of fire, which isint that great by the way. With a BS4 army like the Marines and Eldar this works wonders. But a Guard army is just too inaccurate for Autocannons to be effective. At most 1 hit will be caused and then your pen. roll will fail because you need a 5.
Twin linked weapons? Ok you'll get 3 hits at max (and that wont be often) but you'll still have trouble with the pen. roll.
It simply isint a great tank hunter weapon for the Guard.
I will grant that a Battlecannon being a Scatter weapon doesnt help it much, but i would still put more faith in it's abilities in tank killing than the Autocannon.
For me at least, the Battlecannon has proven its a better tank hunter than the Autocannon.
Also, you talking to Guard players. No Guard player would ever say the Battle Tank is crap. We just love it too much....lol
And Our experience with it tells us that its a great weapon.
In short....Your never going to win this fight...lol
It will just end with you and us agreeing to disagree
@TKE - it all comes down to opportunity cost, while AC's are great, especially 4 shot twin-linked ones, an IG army should have plenty in the other FOCs. You can only get battlecannons in heavy support.
A semi decent Mech IG list should be able to handle light vehicles through multi-lasers and autocannons, heavy vehicles through meltas and vendettas. The LRBT is there to punish marines when they get out of a vehicle (either voluntarily or otherwise).
The range is also a huge factor, people can often end up focusing on the 24-30 inches around a unit and not step back and notice the russ sitting way back in the corner that is about to ruin their day. Autocannons just don't do that.
The sentinel should outflank 99.9% of the time unless you have a plan so cunning, you could stick a tail on it and call it a weasel. An armoured sentinel is gonna be firing at AV11/12+ front armour, the scout sentinel outflanks and comes on shooting the AC and HKM at AV10/11 (side/rear armour) before they can do anything to stop it.
I disagree about Outflanking, absolutely when they have a HKM in addition to regular weaponry. It's random at the best of times, no need to reduce your opening volley yet further.
You speak of an opening volley as if sure you're gonna get one.
Pay the points for an astropath and it'll come on earlier and (unless you roll like me) probably on the correct side.
Plus if outflanking you can be sure that it'll get to fire before it gets shot to pieces, which I think is always a nice thing... :)
I'd Agree with Chirs, astropath and they should walk on perfectly when you want a rear armour shot on the enemy, and hey even add the threat of coming on behind enemy lines making the player have to either hang slightly back, adjust their plans, or leave more units back just incase to protect their obj.
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