Okay guys, you know the format. This time, it's Chtiofonce and his army list for a Polish Championship, in the run up to the ETC 2010. His words in GREEN, mine in BLUE. Happy Kirbs? :p
Librarian (lance + prefered enemy) jump pack 125
No biggie, choice of second power is largely preference, IMO. It's highly situational, too - rolling with the DC, for example, this bad boy - in a Mech list, Shield is clearly better, unless your group interpret it not to work on vehicles (which is, IMO, totally wrong)
6 Terminators 2 claws 4 shields 260
LR Redeemer MMelta Extra-armor 265
Makes sense, as long as you have the redundancy to make it stick. Note, we aren't just talking about Unit Redundancy here, as Role Redundancy must also be taken into account. For example, DC can serve the same role as these beefsticks.
sanginary priest 50
sanginary priest jump pack 75
Ah, these guys are so damn good...lol Must say, I prefer to slap Infernus Pistols on...but that may be a points sink Red Herring, depending on the rest of the list, and simple practice with them.
10 assault SM 2 melta fist 235
5 assault SM melta fist 135
razorback twinlinked Hflamer 20
5 assault SM melta infernus 125
razorback twinlinked Hflamer 20
5 assault SM melta infernus 125
razorback twinlinked Hflamer 20
5 assault SM melta infernus 125
razorback twinlinked Hflamer 20
I'll be brutal here - I think this is a complete waste. The Wolves are so much better at this list it's just silly. Sure, they don't get FC and FnP - well, you can lose them, whereas they always get those tasty tasty Counter Assault benefits (ish) While Wolves don't get Fast Preds, they don't have the Red herring of going for the HFlamers. I LIKE them in that they're a nice option to have - but the Las/Plas Back is simply the best, no question. A Wolf list could easily squeeze some of these in, and, while not having the FnP Termies, it could have TWolves instead...or Nilla SM could do this list without the Meltaguns (using Combi-Meltas) and with Null Zone/Vulkan Termies instead. Pretty much a wash between SM and SW on the list, but BA just don't fit in as much stuff with extra cost - and the FlamerBacks contribute nothing to the list's ranged capacity, without having the AV14 of a Redeemer as a *ahem* redeeming quality.
The lonely JP unit is also horribly out of place, as they are the only real threat for the first 3 turns (no Fire Points on Razors, after all) or maybe 2, depending on the army you face's mobility.
3 Assault bikes Mmelta 150
Ugh. I posted about these before, in the (F)Law of Averages post. Admittedly, I failed to take FnP into consideration adequately. Nonetheless, I struggle to see beyond the Speeder and Baal, and Vanguard, for this slot. Still, they are quite cheap. Perhaps less horrible than my instincts cry - but less than optimal, IMO.
total = 1750
KP = 15
models = 43
wounds = 47
vehicles = 5
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I want a good try at the new BA dex...lots of melta and template glory in there, fast vehicles, jump pack units coz its BA and the new furious FNP termies of course. I dont know yet how my army will be used in the team's pairing strategy, I'm going in pretty blind and I suspect my teammates too :) But I'm confident I can take on a lot of builds and hurt them bad :D
I have no doubt, especially since you seem an eminently competent player - but I think you could do a lot better to go with a Full-JP theme, if models permit. Such as:
Librarian; w/ Lance, Preferred, Jump Pack - 125
Honour Guard; w/ 4 Meltaguns, 1 Fist, Jump Packs - 230 (Cheaper than Termies, but a lot more punch in the Shooting Phase, and decent in CC. They also bring they're own FnP...) [355]
Sang Priest; w/ Jump Pack - 75
Sang Priest; w/ Jump Pack - 75 [505]
10 Assault Marines; w/ 2 Melta, Fist - 235
10 Assault Marines; w/ 2 Melta, Fist - 235
10 Assault Marines; w/ 2 Melta, Fist - 235
10 Assault Marines; w/ 2 Melta, Fist - 235 [1445]
This leaves just enough for some Vanguard:
5 VVets; w/ Jump Packs, Glaive Encarmine, Fist, 2 Power Weapons, 2 Hand Flamer, 2 Melta Bombs - 250 [1695]
With the remaining 55 points we grab 3 Infernus Pistols - each of the Characters getting one. :)
There, doesn't that feel more cohesive?
6 comments:
That list is kind of a mess. It's got good elements, but they don't seem to mesh well together.
The Assault Termies are a huge rock unit, and damn do they hit hard. You need plenty of support to back it up and to carry you should it get unlucky. Las/plas Razors are fast and solid support, plus the RAS inside make for good mop up.
TKE put up a good jump pack list, so I'll do a mech one :D
Termie Librarian w/ Shield, Unleash Rage
5 Termies, 2 TH/SS in LRC w/ xa, MM
2 SHP
3x 5 ASM, flamer, hf, las/plas Razor
2x MM/HF Speeders
3x Rifleman Dreads
That's 1735.
You have your obvious super unit, but lots of firepower backing it up. Las/plas backs and Riflemen can knock out armor at range, Speeders can block, support, and do their thing, and the RAS inside, while only 15 men, still sport FNP and 2 flamers per unit.
I like that Mech actually. I expected to hate it when I saw Razors, but no. Hmmm.
Las plas Razorbacks are really expensive and not that useful if you're facing an army with the ability to kill them, which is any army except Necrons. 90 point transports are for people that have to waste points, not people trying to win games.
Drop them, take Rhinos and more dudes.
I think Chumby's mech list requires you to hide in reserve or get massacred against IG or shooty Marines. 15 scoring bodies is one bad shooting phase from cannot win.
The first list has more bodies, but it's not really good. I think people are way to enamoured of FnP to make up for lack of bodies; it doesn't actually double the number of wounds you can take (especially since I predict that the BA Codex will push the Plasmagun back into more regular usage, a move which Tyranids and Razorspam lists have already made more common).
No reason to figure FnP when talking about Attack bikes - who shoots them with anything under S8 anyway?
All that said, I'm not clear on what to do with BA yet; I'm just learning what I don't like with them, and Razorbacks are definitely on that list.
lasbacks are actually 55 points :P Gotta love that RAS discount. They're fast too, so firing both guns after moving 6" works, as does starting out of sight or off the board. That extra mobility helps loads.
I wouldn't normally take just 15 marines, but they support the super unit as best they can. Plasma is a problem for FNP, but not at 48". If these Razors have to get close, it's either for mop up or something has gone wrong.
Yes TKE.
I have to agree with Jwolf for once, I'm not a fan of the LasPlas RBacks for BA. I think SW and SM to a different extent do it that much better and if you're not playing the RBack spam game the min-sized Troops can become a problem against people who target wrong ^^.
I agree, I think BA struggle with Razor-based lists in a way the other Chapters do not.
However, I wrote one fun Razor-based BA list. If I can find where I wrote it down, I can post it... :(
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