Monday, 19 April 2010

Seriously worried, about Ray...

Couple emails, from a local friend of mine.  For a few reasons I haven't had a chance to sit down with him and talk about his Night Lords army he's building, at least not since I had a proper look at the Dex, and so he emailed me.  Plus, he gets more opinions than just mine this way, so please don't hold back your opinions, True Believers.  Once again I'm putting my words in blue, just for easy reading.  :)


"Hey dude ray here i have attached an armylist using the blood angels codex for my night lords just ask for advice on a few point if you can help thanks
1.thinking of taking jump packs off one of the 10 man squads and putting the in a rhino

2. should i try and include baal pred just not sure will it work fluff wise

3. should i drop a squad and put in scouts maybe in a landraider as transport and outflank with it ( can this be done )

4. maybe drop an assault unit for a tactical squad with a preist

5. how can i drop points to get a librarian in

6. any other comments you think could help

any help you can give would be brilliant thanks


Well, this email is short enough I don't need to do the previous, and reply point-by-point.

3) Yes, in theory, Scouts could Outflank in a Dedicated Land Raider.  However, they do not get any Dedicated Transport.  :p

5) Libbies aren't needed in EVERY list, but they are a great benefit.

4) While BA Tac Squads should not be rejected out of hand, their uses are limited - and their inclusion would need to be carefully planned...More than likely best to leave them out.

1) Hybrid BA is usually horrible.  See below...

2) Fluff?  lol
Never let anyone tell you what fits the fluff of YOUR army, it's your hobby too.  See below.  :)

- Note, I couldn't open the file that the attached list came in, so he sent me a revision...


ok dude will write up the one i was thinking of doing
 HQ dante (225) in a unit of sanguinary guard with 2 inferno pistols and power fist (230) and a preist with jump pack (75)

Librarian with jump pack with sheild and lance powers (125) in a unit of assault marines x10 with 2 meltaguns and power fist (235) with preist and jump pack (75)

assault squad x 10 meltagun and flamer and power fist and hand flamer (240) with preist and jump pack (75)

death company x 8 with 2 power weapons and hand flamer (200) in a rhino (50) with chaplain (100)

baal predator with flamestorm cannon (115)

dreadnought (105) drop pod (35)

dreadnought with plasma cannon (115)

it comes in at 2000 points just wondering what you think and if you have any suggestions.

just a few questions should i drop death company for a tactical squad

maybe drop predator but dont know what to put in its place

dont know about putting scouts in

not sure will it look right fluff wise

any help would be great thanks :-)

While I answered the questions before the list, the rest of my reply overlaps somewhat...but that's okay.  :)

Really Ray, worrying about other people's interpretations of Night Lords fluff is silly.  They have no right to tell you the army is 'wrong' - and besides, how many people we know from the shop even know ANYTHING about Night Lords? lol

That said, existing Night Lords fluff would SEEM to indicate Scouts as a bad call.  As would my analysis of the unit entry in the Codex... ;)

I assume you haven't had a chance to playtest yet?  To be honest I'm a bit irritated you've seemingly forgotten the many, many times I've told you never to mix Special Weapons.  :(

Frankly, your list is a little all over the place.  I don't really like DC too much, but perhaps you want to use Possessed models as them, so I can work around that if you prefer.  For now, I'm going to advocate dropping them entirely.

Having two Assault Squads with JPs is a good core for the list, so I think we should stick with that.

The Dreadnought is already built, I assume - there's no earthly reason why you would debase it by gluing together a Plasma Cannon otherwise, I assume.  :p

Death Company should only be used if also taking at least one DC Dread, and, unless running an all Pod list, they should, IMO, really be the only things podding in.  Possibly a Furioso...but I just don't think that's as strong an option.

Running Dante feels a little wasted without taking full advantage of the Dantewing, such as seen here on Blackjack and Hookers.  That said, you clearly want to - so, again, we'll work around.  The list lack anti-tank, and the Baal literally adds nothing with that Flamer.  In addition, the Dante/DoA combo makes using DoA even more attractive, and as a result, you simply don't want anything to deploy on turn one.  Whilst Baals can work around this quite effectively, with their Outflanking, the other non-JP elements are weakened by their inclusion, and, especially when BA units are so damn expensive as they are, they weaken the whole list.  Essentially what I'm saying here, is that Dante will NEVER work in a Hybrid list.  Not with this Codex, anyway.

I'm not saying no-one would win games like that, or that Dante might not provide a single decisive strike that wins said games - but overall it hurts the list, because there's no synergy there, and the sheer cost is ludicrous.

I'm going to cut the analysis short at this point, because hopefully you will be in Serenity Tuesday? We can play 2k if you can muster up this army I'm about to type.  I think that'd benefit us both, lol.  My Eldar haven't beaten a BA list since 4th...(Haven't played one, but even so...)

Okay, the list...

Dante - 225

Honour Guard - 260
w/ Jump Packs, 4 Meltaguns, 2 Flamers, 2 Storm Shields, Sang Novitiate.

Librarian - 140
Jump Pack, Lance, Shield, Infernus Pistol.

Sanguinary Guard - 230
w/ 2 Infernus Pistols, 1 Fist. [TROOPS]

Assault Squad - 235
w/ 2 Meltaguns, Power Fist.

Assault Squad - 235
w/ 2 Meltaguns, Power Fist.

Assault Squad - 235
w/ 2 Meltaguns, Power Fist. {1560}

2 Sang Priests: - 185
Jump Pack, Infernus Pistol.
Jump Pack, Meltabombs, Hand Flamer.

Vanguard Squad - 185
w/ Jump Packs, 2 Hand Flamers, Glaive Encarmine.

Land Speeder - 70
w/ HF, MM.

..Admittedly, the Speeder is to fill a 70 point gap, after the rest.  It's always possible to cram more junk in the list, more Fists or whatever (Hand Flamers??) but with 49 JP Marines already, you should be okay.  The list is crying out for more Sang Guard, but 'treat em mean, keep em keen' is someone other than me's motto, so let's try that.  Or something.  No, seriously, probably the best edit is to drop the Storm Shields and have 110 points...That nets you a lot of Meltabombs and another Priest.  Not sure if that'd work, tbh.

PS - If you don't have enough JP guys, and not enough guys you wanna proxy, I have 10 ASM and 5 Sang Guard on the sprue, and I can steal 10 more ASM from Mark...
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