TKE - You're Awesome.

Another email received by moi, prior to the three I got today, (thanks guys) so this one gets out first.  I have read the others, promise.  ;)

Same format, I'll speak in the middle, cos you wonky peeps seem to like conversations n junk.  Whateva.  

Okay guys, just for the mindfuck, this time the email is in BLUE, and my snowmobile'd comments in RED.

TKE-

 

Love your blog and your posts on other blogs.

 Aw shucks.  Thanks man.  :)

Ok - so I am building/painting a BA list for tournaments later in the summer.

 

This is what I am currently looking at:

 

Librarian w/JP

Librarian w/JP

 Well, powers would be nice, lol.  However, these are malleable, so bleh.

Honor Guard Flamer x2 MG x2 (Sang Priest)

Honor Guard Flamer x2 MG x2 (Sang Priest)

 

Assault Squad (10) Melta x2 Fist

Assault Squad (10) Melta x2 Fist

 So far, So Solid.

Assault Squad (5) Melta Fist

Razorback TL Lascannon/PG

 Oooo.  Hybrid? Me no likey.

Assault Squad (5) Melta Fist

Razorback TL Lascannon/PG

 Also, little note - only the PG is TL, not the Las.  

Baal Pred AC/HB Sponsons

 

Baal Pred AC/HB Sponsons

 Sponsons? Baargh! Not a fan.  Though some disagree.

Pred AG/HB Sponsons

 Maybe this Hybrid ain't so bad after all...

Pred AG/HB Sponsons

 Dakka Preds are solid in the Nilla list...I'm yet to be convinced of their utility for BA.  Consider - killing Infantry at range is difficult.  They have Cover, and they have Transports.  Sometimes one, often both.  Getting them out requires either heavy fire, or Melta weaponry.  While the list has no lack of the latter, it's all short-range Melta, no Multi-Meltas, and despite mobility you will struggle against things like Manticores and Russ Squadrons.  They can kick the shit out of your Troops trying to get near the enemy Transports - also, if you nuke a Transport with Melta, sometimes you won't be able to charge.  Rarely? Perhaps, but that depends on many variable, none of which come into the ranged support equation.  Finally, the lack of potent anti-tank on Preds makes the enemy's Target Priority a bit easier.  If you haven't read this article on YTTH, do so, it discusses Target Priority rather well.  To put it simply, the Razorbacks are the easiest target, and pose a sizeable threat.  With the Preds packing Las Sponsons, that threat is reduced, because the Pred Threat now is greater.  Problem is, a top quality player will know to shoot Razors anyway - go for the better odds of a kill...but we aren't all that good, and we aren't all at our peak under pressure.

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I have a few points left over. I am debating drop poding the HG.

 

This is a classic hybrid trap. I am trying to draw on the strength of Fast (and in the case of 2 Scout) Dakka Preds combo'd with Descent of Angels squads who can drop and melta. Add in the librarians with blood lance and you have a TheoryHammer party.

 Ah, Libbie Powers.  lol :p

Now, what you say here is true, and logical.  Issue is, you're deploying half an army.  Remember what happens to Daemons who do that? ;)

Here are the question I usually ask.

 

Can I score? 6 Scoring Units should be ok.

Can I kill scoring units? The Assault Squads backed by Sang Priests can.

Can I shoot down armor? Blood Lance, 10 Meltas and the Razorbacks say yes. The Preds can assist on AV11s.

Can I shoot down MCs? Kinda. Its like armor but will need torrents to do it.

Can I take down mass infantry? Iffy. The Dakka Preds, HG Flame units and Sang Priest help.

Can I take down death stars (TH Terms/Seer Council/Nob Bikers)? No. I thought of taking Mephy or some furioso for this but I like having two blood lances drop with the HG.

 Lance can be 4".  It's unlikely, but it can.  It can also be Hooded, RoWard'd, Runic'd, Shadow'd, and Perils'd.  The Libby can be torrented, and the foe can not castle.  Don't rely on it.  Like JotWW, everyone goes ZOMG BR0K3N!, but it's just very good, not awesomesauce.  Frankly, Living Lightning is perhaps better than either (though AP1 is a massive boost.)

So from my eye I can take down IG but some SW and Vanilla lists will rape me. Also mass infantry lists will give me problems.

 

Please let me know any advice you can give as I continue to paint red.

 

-Call me Vuron.

 

Thanks.

Funny, you see massed Infantry as a bigger issue for the list than I.  Now, I don't know if you have playtested this list, I have not, and so your experience with the list would rank above my theory here, BUT exactly what infantry is a threat? Wolf Infantry? Perhaps, they get to Counter your charges, and you have few PWs.  IG? You get anything into CC with anyone short of Straken and it's feeding time, lol.  Orks? Well, they have a LOT of small arms...but FnP should go a long way towards mitigating that - and where you get the charge you wound on 3+ something with a 6+ save.  With JPs there's no reason you wouldn't get the charge, either.

As for Deathstars...well.  Councils have to contend with 2 Hoods - tricky for them to get past.  In addition, the list (as is) can spit out a fair amount of shots, and these do begin to tell.  Wouldn't be easy, that's for sure - but possible.  TH/SS are a more dangerous prospect, but can be circumvented, and it's worth a squad a turn, and one to stop the Raider(s) reaching your backfield.  Nob Bikes aren't too big a worry.  Tough as they are, they can't take your whole list, and they will cost the guts of 600 apiece.  Their mobility may be an issue, but you can move your Rhino chassis' 12" and shoot one gun, so they hit on 6's alone.  That may well be more than enough, with the bonus of a couple charges, to finish them.  Charging FC BA hit on 4+, wound on 4+ - get a couple squads in at once, and we have a proper fight here.  Especially since the Painboy is no IC, he's actually worse off than in your squad (just avoid Fists!) if not the Honour Guard 'freebie'.  Still, you have no Sang Priests proper...

 

I suggest dropping the Baal Turrets, and the 5-man squad Fists, which nets you enough points to upgrade the Preds to AC/LC*.  Apart from that, I think you should usually deploy the Assault Squads.  They will be sufficiently down the enemy's Target Priority, and hopefully out of LOS, that they can survive longer than any plan (ie, first contact with the enemy) and this reduces the impact a series of bad reserve rolls can have.  There's no need to drive right up to the foe with your vehicles, that risks exposing their fragile sides.  Use the Baals centrally for maximum coverage of their smaller range, and slightly advanced of the Razors.  Razors need to point outwards, so that if destroyed they form a 'safe zone' in the middle of the formation for the ASM to hide.  Preds roll up the side of this block, covering weaker AVs, and hopefully the foe won't get around at your Side - target most mobile units (eg, Speeders, Vendettas) first.  While the Bolters have a greater capacity to stop the like of Speeders shooting, they have negligible effect on other such threats, Wave Serpents of Dragons, Vendettas  etc - and so you need the extra punch of the Lascannon from other sources.  :)

[This Pic should illustrate what I mean.  It's not perfect, but close enough...]

Hope this has been any use to you...I don't wanna take away the hybrid theme, because I think you've got a decent mix of the disparate elements here, and you will play better with a list you like.  Drop Podding the Honour Guard seems silly to me, tbh.  You get the bonus of them not being in 'Please Blast Me' formation, but they also have to worry more about scatter, strangely.  I plan to do a post about using Descent of Angels properly in the near future - keep an eye out if confused, lol.  ;)

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* - The extra 30 points remaining should go towards Infernus Pistols on these units.  Realistically, they simply don't intend to get out ever, but if they do, it's more than likely an MC that forced the issue, or a Termicide, or Oblits, or something nasty that will quite possibly kill a Fister before he strikes/be virtually immune to chainswords, but vulnerable to Melta shots.  Consider also a Flamer in each of thee units, rather than a Melta.  in that case, Melta Bombs and perhaps a PW would be advisable.