Black Matt asked for help, with regards to his last available attempt to get a Golden Ticket for Vegas next year.
Since playing CSM is his forte, of sorts...certainly what he's known for, I thought, if I was going to help, that would be the way to do it. While he has other beautifully painted models, he himself says that playing an outdated and mid-tier Codex is his best bet of victory, so who am I to criticise that? I still play best with Eldar, whatever I might prefer...(debatably, I actually play better with Orks. The Internet wouldn't agree though, and I cba with all that noise...)
My first thought was that this was some sort of Comp Event...while inherently Fail (it's a premise, don't argue) this led to the list in the comments there, repeated here for ease of readage, and for explanation, where necessary. The list then, underwent the following genesis...
[Basic Premise - Kharn, 9 Oblits, 5 PM Rhinos, hopefully some disposable Melta (Raptors)]
[Flaw - both 9 Oblits and 5 PM Rhinos fail to be cost effective. Leads to drastic reduction in room for disposable Melta, leads to Troop inefficiency, leads to one-dimensional play.]
[Solution - Drop to 6 Oblits, drop a PM squad. While 4 is not ideal, not a HUGE differential in survivability, especially if adding another target or two for Saturation purposes...]
[Flaw - still costing too high...or rather, inherent points inefficiency of the CSM Dex is giving me a headache. 95 points left is bugger all for them.]
[Solution - Drop an Oblit unit, replace with AutoLas. Not great, VERY overcosted, but it is what it is, and for CSM, that's decent.]
[New Flaw...that leaves us 5 points over when we duplicate our competent Chosen squad. 5 shitting points. Way to FAIL, CSM Dex.]
[Only possible solution...replace Kharn with Inferior Slaanesh Kharn aka Lucius. *Sigh*]
Finished list:
1750 CSM:
Lucius - 160
5 Chosen - 3Melta - 120
5 Chosen - 3Melta - 120
5 PMs w/Rhino, Melta Melta - 170
5 PMs w/Rhino, Melta Melta - 170
5 PMs w/Rhino, Melta Melta - 170
5 PMs w/Rhino, Melta Melta - 170
5 Raptors - Melta Melta - 120
5 Raptors - Melta Melta - 120
2 Oblits - 150
2 Oblits - 150
AutoLas Pred - 130
Not bad, huh? Even considering I thought some form of Comp wsa a problem the list would experience, I felt using every slot, even the universally seen as gimped FA, would help out. Lucy instead of Lash wouldn't hurt either, but he can still kick the crap out of many ICs. Not perfect, but not terribad either.
Upon reflection, I thought that Bikes > Raptors here,despite the Deep Striking, and the extra bodies, because of the Turbo Boost insta-suicide...but DE in particular shrug off the extra T and lawl.
So, anyway....I'm happy enough with that list.
But I wanted to help provide options - and Matt doesn't own a Predator. So, let's look for options. We could get suicide Melta from the HS section ,but we lose the Oblits for..not much, really. Need range. Havocs with Autocannon?
Well...they kinda suck ass. They are paying a HEFTY premium for a weapon Marines really really want to have in Devs...and it shows. Still, a squad of 5 with 3 Autocannon is decent enough that we can hope to have DZ Cover and leave them there. That sets us back 135 points, just more than an AutoLas, and without the lovely S9 benefits (ie, AV12 busting) - worth it? Well...maybe. Let's take three, so no oblits (and therefore no Multi-Meltas. :( )
Given a lack of AP1, we need plenty in Fast Attack/Elites. Best bet? Probly Bikes.
Three with 2 Meltaguns is 119. Three of those units takes us to 762 spent, and 2 FoC spaces filled. Not abysmal. It is what it is.
So, Troops then? We already know we want Kharn, after all, so we want 165 spare afterwards, leaving us around 800...and that pretty much equates to 4 PM units again. There is just no comparison. All the Cult guys are too expensive, and the others not as good. Sigh. Four of our previous unit is enough to give us 143 points of leeway...which is enough for one Chosen, or something different? 140 points gets us a Squad of 5 Noise Marines, with Blastmaster. On foot. Sucks, a bit, but not abysmal, again.
Few options exist for Chaos - if this wasn't apparent enough before, SURELY it is now?
Final Variant List:
Kharn the Betrayer - 165
5 PMs w/ 2Melta, Rhino - 170
5 PMs w/ 2Melta, Rhino - 170
5 PMs w/ 2Melta, Rhino - 170
5 PMs w/ 2Melta, Rhino - 170
5 Noise Marines w/ Blastmaster - 140
3 Bikes w/ 2 Melta - 119
3 Bikes w/ 2 Melta - 119
3 Bikes w/ 2 Melta - 119
5 Havocs w/ 3Autocannons - 135
5 Havocs w/ 3Autocannons - 135
5 Havocs w/ 3Autocannons - 135
Leaves 5 points unspent, too. Ho-hum.
Better? Worse? I tend towards the latter, but it's better than 'zero Oblits' sounds.
4 comments:
Sorry King, I'm going to have to say the final list is actually worse.
The first list is sinking too many points into Obliterators costing a whooping 675 points. No matter the point size of the army that's a lot - if it's 2k it's over half!
Lucius I'm not a fan off. Instant death is kind of cool though.
Chosen should be in Rhinos to outflank or give Rhino saturation. I guess going to infiltrate them, which on foot they will get hammered.
Plague Marines are cool but 7 are better as it works out to be as tough as a 10 man CSM unit.
CSM Bikes are just a scandalous rip-off. However points balance out the same as Raptors and they can move quicker and have higher toughness.
I've seen what autocannon Havocs can do, they perform well but cost a lot - more than Obliterators in fact if my maths is right - 25 points per autocannon?
20, but still double their worth or so.
Plague don't need to be as tough as 10-man CSM, and 5 means more units, which is vital for the army as squeezing Melta in is hard enough already.
Also, 675 isn't over half of 2k (??) and I never spent that on Oblits...
all hail the king!
Thanks for the help!
@ mercer I agree with the rhino on the chosen, the threat range is 8 inches bigger when zooming on in a rhino and its also great to give the disembarked chosen some cover.
If I could possibly have squeezed Rhinos in, I would have loved too.
Sadly, the points were too tight, especially to lose 2 threats at Deployment. As they are, they are a hard counter to Vendetta and Baal scout moves. With luck, they will nuke a target each and take more fire than they're worth.
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