Steel Legion:
First, a couple points:
- I chose not to use Vendettas/Valkyries, because they seemed too rare even for a Steel Legion. For me, they don't quite fit, good as they are. It hurts the competitiveness of the list, but I had more fun writing it without.I chose to omit any unit that couldn't get a Transport, because that's what Steel Legion is about. Back in the day (ie, a decade ago) you could buy them especially for units such as HWS who didn't have the option, but, since that is no longer legal, I simply left them out. The exception is a single SWS squad, who ride with their Company Commissar in his bizarrely Dedicated Transport.I mostly decided to stick to the preferred weaponry, but within reason - Melta is somewhat necessary.Artillery and Lumbering Behemoths seemed radically out of character for a rapid response Mechanised Force, so with no option to put other stuff in Heavy Support, I was forced to take a lot of Hydras, as the only vehicles that even seem like ones that could maintain the pace (and be somewhat necessary, in the Ash Wastes!)I also refrained from any Spearhead or Apocalypse units - partly because I feel it better to get into Apoc at around 5k, partly because I have never played, nor really intend to play, Spearhead...and partly because the points costs for these were not handy to me at the time of writing. Plus, I needed a couple of different units to make the varied points cost levels.
Okay, onto the 1500 point list:
Company Command Squad:
Chimera [Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer], Astropath, 3 Meltaguns, Flamer - 170
Stormtroopers:
2 Meltaguns, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 160
Stormtroopers:
2 Meltaguns, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 160
Veteran Squad:
Shotguns, 2 Meltaguns, Grenade Launcher, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 150
Veteran Squad:
Shotguns, 2 Meltaguns, Grenade Launcher, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 150
Veteran Squad:
Shotguns, 2 Meltaguns, Grenade Launcher, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 150
Devildog:
Heavy Flamer - 120
Devildog:
Heavy Flamer - 120
Hydra Squadron:
2 Hydras - 150
Hydra Squadron:
2 Hydras - 150
[TOTAL = 1480]
Now, the 1750:
Company Command Squad:
Chimera [Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer], Astropath, 3 Meltaguns, Flamer - 170
Stormtroopers:
2 Meltaguns, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 160
Stormtroopers:
2 Meltaguns, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 160
Veteran Squad:
Shotguns, 2 Meltaguns, Grenade Launcher, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 150
Veteran Squad:
Shotguns, 2 Meltaguns, Grenade Launcher, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 150
Veteran Squad:
Shotguns, 2 Meltaguns, Grenade Launcher, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 150
Devildog:
Heavy Flamer - 120
Devildog:
Heavy Flamer - 120
Devildog:
Heavy Flamer - 120
Hydra Squadron:
2 Hydras - 150
Hydra Squadron:
2 Hydras - 150
Hydra Squadron:
2 Hydras - 150
[TOTAL=1750]
And the 1850 list takes a different tack, not seeking the extra suppression fire and Fast melta, opting instead for additional bodies...
Company Command Squad:
Chimera [Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer], Astropath, 3 Meltaguns, Flamer - 170
Stormtroopers:
2 Meltaguns, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 160
Stormtroopers:
2 Meltaguns, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 160
Veteran Squad:
Shotguns, 2 Meltaguns, Grenade Launcher, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 150
Veteran Squad:
Shotguns, 2 Meltaguns, Grenade Launcher, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 150
Veteran Squad:
Shotguns, 2 Meltaguns, Grenade Launcher, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 150
Platoon Command Squad:
3 Meltaguns, Flamer, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 120
Infantry Squad:
Grenade Launcher, Missile Launcher, Chimera [Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer] - 125
Infantry Squad:
Grenade Launcher, Missile Launcher, Chimera [Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer] - 125
Devildog:
Heavy Flamer - 120
Devildog:
Heavy Flamer - 120
Hydra Squadron:
2 Hydras - 150
Hydra Squadron:
2 Hydras - 150
The Heavy Flamers on the Infantry Squads are of course debatable, but easily exchanged. Depends as much on playstyle as anything else, really. Given the nature of the units inside (Missile Launcher) they are likely to be stationary...and so the Heavy Bolter is likely to be no less use.
The full list, then, adds a few extra elements...first we put back in the things in the 1750 that got dropped (Hydras and Devildog), then we look for iconic Steel Legion things...first, we want a Commissar, because it's a rare Regiment that doesn't have at least one.The very first Steel Legion real appearance (Codex:Armageddon) featured a really neat Commissar conversion, and so including one became even more important, from an aesthetic viewpoint...I also wanted to get Armoured Sentinels into the list somewhere...sure, they aren't amazing - but they are iconic Steel Legion support. Hellhounds also fit the anti-Ork theme, while putting a Multi-Melta on the hull gives them the duality you really need in competitive play. We also want some guys to accompany the Commissar (the aforementioned SWS) and at least one more Infantry Squad. We need to split then, to take up two FoC charts...
FOC1:
Company Command Squad:
Chimera [Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer], Astropath, 3 Meltaguns, Flamer - 170
Stormtroopers:
2 Meltaguns, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 160
Stormtroopers:
2 Meltaguns, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 160
Veteran Squad:
Shotguns, 2 Meltaguns, Grenade Launcher, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 150
Veteran Squad:
Shotguns, 2 Meltaguns, Grenade Launcher, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 150
Hellhound:
Multi-Melta - 145
Hellhound:
Multi-Melta - 145
Devildog:
Heavy Flamer - 120
3 Armoured Sentinels:
Autocannons [ Missile Launchers sadly too expensive!] - 180
Hydra Squadron:
2 Hydras - 150
FOC2:
Lord Commissar:
Camo Cloak, Power Weapon, Chimera [Multilaser, Heavy Flamer] - 145
Veteran Squad:
Shotguns, 2 Meltaguns, Grenade Launcher, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 150
Platoon Command Squad:
3 Meltaguns, Flamer, Chimera [Multi-laser, Heavy Flamer] - 120
Infantry Squad:
Grenade Launcher, Missile Launcher, Chimera [Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer] - 125
Infantry Squad:
Grenade Launcher, Missile Launcher, Chimera [Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer] - 125
Infantry Squad:
Grenade Launcher, Missile Launcher, Chimera [Multi-Laser, Heavy Flamer] - 125
Special Weapon Squad:
3 Grenade Launchers - 50
Devildog:
Heavy Flamer - 120
Devildog:
Heavy Flamer - 120
Hydra Squadron:
2 Hydras - 150
Hydra Squadron:
2 Hydras - 150
Hope you enjoy!
13 comments:
drop some of the Hyrdas, they arent as good as they appear.
and despite what you say, a Leman Russ is at home with a Mechanised Infantry list, and tbh, you need heavier guns with some survivablity. i mean most of your heavy weapons are strength 6/7
and your lists all include tanks at front armour 12 and sides 10, with 12 on the sides of the hellhounds.
as for the storm troopers....i think they can have valkyries or vendettas. stormtroopers arent part of the Steel Legion (they dont even have a special unit that act like stormtroopers like the Cadians) so using that little piece of fluff you can have them in your lists.
so by my reasoning, your lists arent really that fluffy, and they have some serious short falls.
Storm Troopers is just a name... could be count-as Veterans lolz
And although the lists are lacking long ranged high Str. shots, they aren't always a necessity. Especially since the lists have alot of suppression fire.
I like the lists... even without the lascannons or battle cannons.
Messanger
Storm Troopers are the Lord Commissar's personal bodyguards, as they went to the Schola Progenium together. :P
Artillery vehicles are traditionally slow, and Russes are very much slow, so they don't fit with a Rapid Response Steel Legion. If that looks familiar, it's because it is word for word my sentence above. ;)
Also, Steel Legion didn't have a specialised unit like Cadians have Kasrkin, no - but Armageddon regiments were able to take Deathworld veterans from Codex: Catachans to represent their practice and skills fighting Orks in the jungles of Armageddon Prime. While this where not permitted in the original C:Ar Steel Army List, I don't agree with that making sense, especially given the Departmento Munitorum's penchant for redistributing resources without taking their ability to gel together into account (see Tanith barracked with those uppity Dragoons.)
If the STs could have had Dedicated Vendettas, no question they'd have been used. Originally, I planned to use them Deep Striking, and let SWS take their rides...but this makes no sense from a fluff perspective - you don't ride pillion on Armageddon!
I won't lie, I wish I had more Lascannons, but it is what it is.
I think DevilDogs will certainly do the business against Land Raiders - it's Tyranids and dark Eldar this list fears...which is fitting, again, for fluff reasons. :P
Messenger: for the guard they are a necessity. this whole thing was to make a generalised list for all situations. what Rick has made is too anti Eldar to me, cause these are the sorts of lists i would use against them.
in most of them there arent enough enough Troop choices to go up against Marines or Tyranids, or Orks for that matter.
as for firepower, most of his weapons are str 7 AP4. now to be fair, most units in 40k have only 4+ armour saves. but you have to think....what self respecting player wont put his troops into transports??? fire suppression is ok a thought, but it has a lot of limits when you try to use it for the guard.
and the only anti tank he has are Devil Dogs which, to be fair, arent as good as they first appear. i've used them twice and they have done nothing for me. same goes for the Hydras. used them ar least 5 times and they just dont work as well as you would think.
in most occassions a Battle Tank is the best unit to have. i mean it has the some good all round abilities.
1) it has survivability on its side. most weapons cant hurt it, and the ones that can need rolls of 5 or 6 to get through the front and side armours.
2) it is good against Heavy Infantry, like Marines because of the Str 8 AP3. Strength 8 auto kills a Marine Character, and AP3. well it speaks for itself, it gets round the Marines armour save.
3) it is good against Vehicles, because it can be equipped with a Lascannon, and the Battlecannon is fairly good at firing at tanks.
and lastly it has range on its side, which the Devil Dog just doesnt. for the devil dog to work effectively, you have to close the distance. where with the Leman Russ you can just sit at the board edge and it will still have the same effectivness against vehicles.
and i know you said Rapid Response was the main aim of the Lists, but you can have battle tanks in a rapid response force
if they need to be moved from one battlefront to another, they can move quite fast, and keep up with the Chimeras.
besides if you were going for fluffiness you would know that armoured fists squads accompany Battle Tanks and vica versa. and the Steel Legion are Armoured Fist regiments in all but name.
so im still not convinced that these lists are fluffy to the Steel Legion.
tbh, if you were going for fluffiness you would have used a full platoon of infantry with Chimeras, if not 2 but thats quite hard to get in a 2k game. and then after that a good few armoured Sentinels. you've use Hellhounds in every list, so i have no problems in that. but again, you can use Leman Russes in these lists, they do fit in a rapid response force....im convinced on that.
I disagree. :P
I used Armoured Sentinels in the end, but they just aren't very good.
A single BS3 Lascannon does not anti-tank make.
I know Armoured Fists go with mixed or Tank Companies, this is a Mechanised Infantry Company, which is different.
I wrote a full Platoon in originally, but without HWS they are poor, and expensive. Costs like 20 points more for Vets...no brainer, lol.
Because the whole list closes on them, Dogs should get through...if not, I have loads more Melta.
Finally, if anything, the list is most optimised against Orks. my Eldar wouldn't fear this.
rick, im sorry to say this because i could be wrong. but i have never seen you use IG, or know that you have ever played with the IG.
but i know an Anti Eldar List when i see it. i've fought against eldar enough to see some of the units that work well. i mean you have 4 Hydras in most of those lits. and 2 in each squadran. thats 8 autocannon shots against your tanks, and you were the one who told me you hate going up against an army full of Autocannons.
and the fact you had Orks in mind when writing these shows that these lists are flawed against everyone else.
i mean the competition was to make a list that can work against everything. not just one enemy. i mean he wants to fight other opponents, not just Ork Players.
i know i seem a little obsessive, but when things like this bother me....and i cant help but argue.
ask anyone i know....i start arguements just because someone said something wrong.
There is no argument here Joe.
I have used IG only a couple times, not recently - and Hydras don't make sufficient saturation of Autocannons to strike fear into me.
I can prove it...can you field any of these armies? :P
The armies work against most things, but are a bit weaker vs Eldar are Nids and DE sadly have more advantage again. Everything else should be easy enough...or at least not unreasonably challenging.
i can field all but the Hydras and Devil Dogs, if you think in terms of WYSIWYG. have 3 standard Hellhounds though.
so you think that 4 Hydras do not make for a threat, yet when we last played you focused on destroying my 1 Autocannon Armed Chimera??? it was for a turn mind you, but still.....
Big difference. An AC-armed Chimera can put out enough anti-infantry shots to all-but-guarantee one of my units being wiped out.
Plus, it was the only significant ranged threat while the Vendettas remained off-table. They got my focus when they showed up, remember? lol
We're going to have to get a game sorted with this Steel Legion list, lol. I'll show ye! (Robots don't say ye, Fry)
do you remember that my Chimera did nothing throughout the entire game??? and do you remember that it was actually my Leman Russes that destroyed most of your army???? (still lost the game, but thats a different matter all together)
and you say that the Chimera and Vendettas were the only significant ranged threat i had.
suppose that statment goes to show the difference in faith you and I have in the Leman Russ. its better than you seem to believe.
Not really. They are inaccurate, and have only a 1/3 chance of Pen'ing my Tanks, if they hit with the small hole.
Demolishers, yes, they are good - regular Russes, not really...you just have luck when using them. :P
It doesn't hurt that my entire army, minus the Fire Dragons, will realistically kill an absolute max of 2 enemy vehicles a turn.
i must be, cause Demolishers dont do much for me, its all the regular russes that do the job for me, along with the Vendettas of course.
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