Monday 13 December 2010

Orks - A New Approach?

I was thinking about the Ethos of Continuation vs the Ethos of Perseverance, and it occurred to me that people, naturally enough, try to play Orks in the sense that they go out and kill more of the enemy than they lose...and that it might be possible to try and structure an Ork list so that this isn't the Basic Principle, and that hunkering down and securing objectives is more important.

Orks don't possess the raw survivability of the Eldar, nor the awesome mobility, so they need to try and find ways within the Codex to compensate.  Ignore the seeming inability to get solid reliable kills, and rely upon Stuns, much like the Nids do...only without the MCs, and giving birth all over the show.  Can it be done? Can it be done by me?

Let's find out... 

We need to start off with the capacity to suppress enemy vehicles.  We all know that this is difficult for Orks to achieve at range, in part due to the balls-up that is the 'Glory Hogs' rule (although turning backward mitigates this, too many people argue too much over this issue to make it worthwhile,) and partly due to the lack of real options with any accuracy or the RoF to offset this.  Or high S.  Or even just range better than 36".

To start with, then, the obvious.

11 Lootas:
Deffgun - 165

Three of these units takes away our Elite slots, but leaves us with pretty decent ranged firepower at three targets.  Is it great? No, not by any means, but it will have to suffice.

With that done, we need to slide across to the Heavy Support section.  Normally with a list like this we would have moved onto Troops by now...usually after doing the Elite section too (Hive Guard, Fire Dragons etc) as we would be hoping to try and squeeze in a minimum of 4 Scoring Units in order to keep our ability to hold at least two objectives as late as possible.  After that we would ideally be wanting to make sure we had sufficient ability to contest others later in the game...with Nids, this is provided by Harpies, Gargoyles, Trygons, Gaunts and such things...Tervigons can perform this role, though it's more optimal to sit them on an objective, in my view, than head off to a further away one.  Anyway, we can't effect either of these, so we make do.  The way to do that, is to go to Heavy Support, and pick up:

Big Gunz:
Kannon, Kannon, Kannon, +1 Krew. - 63

Three of these should give us a relatively solid base of suppression fire, and without breaking the bank, either.  In fact, despite maxing out on two FoC slots, we have only spent 684 points - not too shabby!

Time to get the Troops we (sadly!) require now.  With most armies, we want to take units with Transports, because as we know Mech is far more survivable, as a general rule.  For Orks, sadly, this is not so cut-and-dried.  We are lucky that a bit of FoC manipulation is potentially available, increasing our potential options from 2 to...er...six.  I say that hesitantly, because the Deff Dread isn't truly much of an option as a Troop.  Still, there are 5 relatively decent options there.

There are really two ways we could try to approach this...pseudo-MSU, taking units of 3 Nobs in Battlewagons, and hoping that they attract firepower based upon their reputation, rather than the opponent's ability to discern a genuine target...or, we could ignore the Nobs option, and try for identikit Troops that therefore pose much more threat to the enemy...in terms of mission, not damage.  Hows about:

21 Boyz:
Shootas, 2 Rokkit Launchas - 146

That means they have to lose 6 to be reduced to 'Morale Territory' they have some duality and ability to put the kablammo on tanks, and they don't waste extraneous points on a leader who doesn't provide an Ld boost, and who is really only an ablative wound and a Power Klaw.

Well, we aren't beating proper CC specialists anyway, and we aren't stopping tanks in CC, with or without that 35 point upgrade, so why bother?  Let's take 4 of those Troops, for now.  Four of those comes to an additional 584, which is barely under three full Tac squads for, yes, less - but over twice the warm bodies to throw at the problem.  With 1268 spent, this is looking less and less like a 2k list.

Where we go next is HQ...we have none at the moment, and we really need both some Ld boost potential, some killiness, and some awesome support.  Sadly, we can only get ourselves a Big Mek or two, with KFFs to huddle under while hoping that the battle largely passes them by.  Personally, I think it's cool to take a Burna with your KFF, but realistically it's not a great expenditure of points.  Better to leave it out, and largely because the double dice for penetration was taken away.  Without it, the Burna becomes mediocre - in a format that is dominated in part by the prevalence of Cover, the fact that a Flamer-type weapon is so casually disregarded by an army with scant access to them (and poor BS, to boot!) is a damning indictment.  So, Meks.

Big Mek:
Kustom Force Field, Choppa, Mek's Tools - 85

Two of those gives us a total spent of 1438 and, genuinely, it's not looking bad at all.  If it were 1500 points.  We could reliably(-ish) suppress 6-8 targets a turn, all the while getting our rather exceptional anti-infantry into position to take advantage, cut down on enemy mobility, and overall to try and nab the objectives.

The main thing missing is the almost total lack of mobility in the list.  Really, not much of anything.  This can., of course, be fixed in the Fast Attack section, but the issue with this is that the units again are required to at least pretend at duality and suppression.  This rules out the Stormboyz immediately, even if they somehow were in contention in your minds.  (Not mine.)  Frankly, I see two ways we could go about this.  We can either try and use Buggies as a curious mixture of Piranha and Vyper, combining the worst elements of both, or we can use suicide Deff Koptas, that will often be called upon to suicide into Leman Russes, block Baal Predator and Vendetta Scout moves, and generally get munched by most mediocre or better enemy units.  Without the apppropriate FoC manipulation, or sufficient FA slots, a mixture is impossible to achieve with any balance.  For now, let's go for the Koptas, as the Scout Blocking is something we can't obtain elsewhere.

Deff Kopta:
TL Rokkit Launchas, Buzzsaw - 70

Three of those things that costs like a MM/HF and hits like a Squig Sausage on Catnip.  Awesome? 1648 gone.  Let's make the list 1850, so we don't run out of FoC before we run out of points, I'd much rather do it at the same time.

This is where we take our last semi-reluctant foray into the realm of Duality, and attempt to take a unit that will purely exist to draw fire.  These two have LITERALLY no hope of surviving most battle...hell, most shooting phases!  They are the best way to finish off the list for precisely this reason, as it forces your opponent's hand by simply being too significant to ignore, while not being significant enough to mind losing.  Bear in mind that, at this point, this list is not truly capable of being handled by a beginner.  The fundamental (or just mental) nature of Orks being what it is, the things you have just scream 'throwmeattheenemyandhopeIkillmorestuffthanIamworth!' but this is a Fail way of thinking.  Only the Dreads and Koptas can be used that way (essentially, the things with Klaws!) though everything is expendable towards the end bar the Troops, who hopefully haven't posed enough danger to be targetted until it is simply too late, and your Deff Dreads are either running amok, or sitting on an objective contesting.  Or more likely dead.  But, if you can reliably 'not lose' with this list, then objective achieved, dig in and await your new Codex in like 2 or 3 years.  The unit I still haven't listed - my bad.

Deff Dread:
2 Rokkit Launchas, Grot Riggerz - 100

Totals at 1848, with every FoC spot filled.  If you're giving it a whirl, let me know! :)

PS - My Spellcheck doesn't work on FireFox, for some reason.  :-/

PPS - I forgot, again, to list the army in full.  Here it is, you TL;DRers!

Big Mek:
Kustom Force Field, Choppa, Mek's Tools - 85
Big Mek:
Kustom Force Field, Choppa, Mek's Tools - 85
 
11 Lootas:
Deffgun - 165
11 Lootas:
Deffgun - 165
11 Lootas:
Deffgun - 165

21 Boyz:
Shootas, 2 Rokkit Launchas - 146
21 Boyz:
Shootas, 2 Rokkit Launchas - 146
21 Boyz:
Shootas, 2 Rokkit Launchas - 146

21 Boyz:
Shootas, 2 Rokkit Launchas - 146
Deff Dread:
2 Rokkit Launchas, Grot Riggerz - 100
Deff Dread:
2 Rokkit Launchas, Grot Riggerz - 100

Deff Kopta:
TL Rokkit Launchas, Buzzsaw - 70
Deff Kopta:
TL Rokkit Launchas, Buzzsaw - 70
Deff Kopta:
TL Rokkit Launchas, Buzzsaw - 70


Big Gunz:
Kannon, Kannon, Kannon, +1 Krew. - 63
Big Gunz:
Kannon, Kannon, Kannon, +1 Krew. - 63
Big Gunz:
Kannon, Kannon, Kannon, +1 Krew. - 63

TOTAL: 1848

7 comments:

fester said...

"21 Boyz:
Shootas, 2 Rokkit Launchas - 146

That means they have to lose 6 to be reduced to 'Morale Territory'
"
Don't you mean lose 11? They are fearless when above 10 models.

Apart from that, as an Ork player, this list doesn't appeal to me as i am a 'throwmeattheenemyandhopeIkillmorestuffthanIamworth!' kinda guy, but I like what you are trying to do and I think that it has a good chance to do it. If not, at least you will get reasonable comp scores at most events for taking strange choices.

Zzzzzz said...

An absolutely excellent concept. Da Epy to me ov kunnin.

I'd love to know if it works/ed or not.

suneokun said...

Weirdly, I've been playing around with a similar concept at pathfinder. The only difference being the use of Kommandoes instead of mass lootas.

On the grot side. I'd go for Lobbas over Kannon. The combination of the barrage rules benefits, indirect fire hitting side armour and a solid range ... combined with the fact that you can 'hide' the grots - makes this a winner in my books.

Grots with Kannon will never outgun anything ... but they might just irritate the enemy into doing something rash.

Just a thought.

Thor said...

The problem with Lobbas in what TKE is trying to accomplish with the list is they aren't a threat to vehicles. The idea is to suppress vehicles and the only way a Lobba will do that is on a very lucky and hitting a facing that's not over AV11.

fluger said...

TKE, is that really you?

I've been advocating that general strategy for a while now with my hybrid Ork list. I think what you have up there is serviceable for what you are attempting.

I don't like the deffkoptas, preferring the added durability of two rokkit buggies for each kopta.

I see what you're doing with the deff dreds; but I think the rokkits are a mistake, then again, maybe it'll work.

-fluger

Anonymous said...

Cool concept...

BTW, I like the new layout.

TheKing Elessar said...

Welcome! Visitors from Da Waaagh.

Were I not opposed to the concept of race-specific forums (they tend to let the loudest people 'win' the debates even more than normal forums, which leads to poor tactical discussion and insane poo listbuilding...) I would join, what with Orks having been my first real army and stuff. But, I'd likely get banned, for arguing with soooooo many of you.

Anyway, I'm saying hi to explain my 'accidentally hilarious' comment. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, in the Ork army (bar Nob Bikes) is as resilient and 'tough' as a Wave Serpent. Wave Serpents belong to Eldar. Ergo, Eldar are tough.

In the real world, Eldar don't get out of their Transports until you shoot them down, or they are about to bitchslap you, in which case do what you want afterwards. So T3 is largely irrelevant...plus, they actually get saves sometimes. :P

Disclaimer.

Primarily, a blog to discuss the Games Workshop system Warhammer 40k, though not exclusively so. All GW IP used without permission, no challenge intended.

Pretty much everything here is my opinion. If you don't like my opinion, you are welcomed to say so. If you don't like me, but like my opinion, feel free to say so. If you don't like me or my opinion, I don't need to hear it. Why even visit?