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| From Rajabersiong |
*TKE Snickers*
When I first started playing Eldar, and I had no clue as to what was good (before I found this place - thanks for that TKE btw) [You are very welcome. :) ] or frankly terrible, I came acropper on the old Scorpions vs Banshees debate. Which assault unit should my fledgling army take. [Of course, there is a debate to be had about whether a melee unit is required at ALL... ;-) ] I was so confused about it all before I saw the light.
Then came the realisation that Dragons are way cooler than either of them. The interest ended and I just ignored the entries in elites that weren't our melta-toting friendsies.
The main problem for these entries is that currently, neither of them is actually any good at the job their designed to do so the highest point on the list of priorities here is to make them killy. Looking at an updated close combat aspect - the Incubi for inspiration, what do they have that the current aspects lack? For one, they *do* kill things, and very happily - with Power from Pain giving them furious charge and FNP, they are markedly more survivable than other current aspect warriors.
Take Striking Scorpions for example, they are 3+ save, T3 and are currently capable of killing around one marine on the charge. Great. I never understood the design idea behind not making them fleet, so first things first, I'll slap that USR on them allowing them to keep up with stuff. Also, something these guys are currently really missing from the 3rd Ed codex is s4 as base - something to keep them set apart from the other, less strongly trained, less übar-chainsword wielding, less mandiblastery Eldar.
Easy fix, make them S4. But wait, I'm not done yet.
Also, in the flarf, especially Path of the Warrior, Scorpions are portrayed as sneaky basterds who move v easily through cover to multiateify their enemies. Although the definitions between flarf and gameplay must not become blurred (or we'll end up with Movie Marines) I figured that they should at least get a nod towards these abilities with another USR - Move Through Cover.
As far as I'm concerned, the powers available to these guys need a tad sorting out too. I like the Stealth and Infiltrate powers, they're mega tasty - yesh please outflanking scorpions. As a nod to Path of the Warrior, I decided to make the last power available an exarch only preferred enemy buff.
The finished product awaits below, concatenatified (I made up another word, so sue me) to the Banshees entry (ahaha still making you choose naïve Width!)
A musical break....
Right,
The crux of the issue. How to make banshees bettar, but not totally flugdärian...?
Given that I'm kinda aiming the power level of this dex pretty much slap bang on DE, another good comparison to make is Incubi = Banshees.
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| From GiantBomb |
These lads and ladies (yes they *are* both genders - Gav Thorpe said so in his little book) are shock, linebreaking infantry that *will* kill the heavy infantry they charge with funky masks that make people feel funny due to the ultrasonic screams when they get charged. In order to actually make them effective in this manner, they need a few boosts to make them approaching best shock infantry in the galaxy (They still won't be able to handle Fire Warriors - those things can kill Assault terminators without raising a finger....).
The 'fixes' that I have written are as follows:
People moaning about them not being killy enough - Okay, Incubi are WS5, Banshees can be too (it's only fair on them... :) ). I will however be keeping them at 1A base, that's 3 on the charge with a potential for 4 with a new Exarch Power - Whirlwind of Blades - originally from TKE's early Banshee draft:
If the Exarch passes a Leadership test, the squad benefits from +1A this turn
Tasty huh..? Hold, on - you've not seen the other two
Well, considering you have to choose between that and the other two powers:
Furious Charge
Unit moves like beasts.
TKE's Note: My only real thing is that I don't know if I thematically like this. Potentially, they could be granted the ability to Assault out of a non-Assault Transport. This, of course, doesn't have to be an Exarch ability though...
After we're done with the actual dex, we'll take a look and see how much more 'Eldar' we can make things... Like Aspect Warrior crews for vehicles.
Aahh... what?
They can move up to 24" in a turn?
Yes. Yes they can. It fits and I'm very stubborn on this point. As they stand in the current codex, I'd be happy making that base, but adding the element of choice in here makes them nasty, stabby, fast bitches that *are* very capable of mincing the stuff they charge.
Well, what do you people think of these guys?
Howling Banshees and Striking Scorpions Unit Profiles
Let us know what you guys/ gals think of these units...
:)
Honestly, if you hate them, let me know.
14 comments:
24"?? How? 12" by tank and 12" fleet and assualt after that??
If thats what you mean by 24", it cant be done. the Tanks would have to become Assualt transports, which they clearly arent.
DKoW, Beasts have Fleet by default. 6" Move, D6" Run, 12" charge gives an assault range of 19-24".
Also, do you not see the problem with giving the Exarch, potentially, 7 Str 3 AP3 shots??
I would say drop the AP value, or make it AP5, then it would be balanced.
D6+1 is no way to balance it out in my opinion.
If it was D3+1 at str3 AP3, I would accept that well before D6+1.
Since when have banshees been beasts??? And why would the Eldar stoop to such a level?? It doesnt make sense, and they shouldnt have it.
And the Exarch powers are free????????
Oh no, thats not on. Those things are potentially very deadly. You should be forced to pay for such an upgrade.
Joe, you pay in taking the Exarch. You then, as it stands, pick ONE power, closing the door on the other options.
DKoW, they only become Beasts/Cavalry if they take that Exarch power. It actually fits pretty well - look at how they leap into combat in the Dawn of War games.
I'll have to agree that the Triskele seems like an auto-upgrade.
I think you're bang on with the Scorpions being a base Str4 (again).
Banshees - I'm not so sure 'move like beasts' is right, maybe a +3" move to the Fleet roll would suffice? have a potential fleet of 4-9" a turn. Furious Charge et al looks pretty good and fair, but not over powered and an auto-take.
Good post.
Nowhere in that does it say you pay for the exarch. Just says one has to be the exarch. And in this case, i would demand that each power costs at least 15pts each.
You may only get 1 choice, but getting a unit changing speacial rule like these cannont be bought for free.
And the triskele also has to be 15pts in my opinion. And thats after the changes i've suggested.
Scorpions > I like what you have done. However I think keeping them Str 4 with the chainsword included is fine.
Move through cover and Fleet is all I think i would need on that unit. Since they have infiltrate.
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Incubi are not Banshee's. They are Striking Scorpions with power weapons and a bad save.
Hence why "Ahra" is among their ranks, and that they have base str 4.
>:0)
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Triskele needs a little work according to many here.
Points value on Exarch abilities.
12 inch Charge I can almost say will be a almost Mandatory in my eyes.
Due to the nature of some of the exarch powers this is why I say you should be able to purchase more then one... maybe cap them at purchasing them at two.
Because Banshees do need something like a 12" assault range.. would make them cool.
However at the same time something like such makes them really not have another choice that is going to be worth while.
In my Opinion... I would actually keep War Shout and just change the rules.
When The Howling Banshees Launch an Assault, the enemy unit is reduced to WS1 for first turn of combat. (No leadership check required.. just mandatory). If that isn't enough could make secondary effect that on following players turn.. must make a Leadership check (Not Morale) to regain composer and fight normally.. if failed. The enemy unit remains WS1 for their assault phase.
Effect ends after Main turn, and then after Leadership is passed, or following enemy assault phase.
No longer active as of Next Eldar Turn.
unless they relaunch an assault.
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Again trying to stick with Fluff.
Otherwise give Banshees an Exarch power that gives them the Ability to assault out of any vehicle they are mounted in.
(Rather then Move like beasts)
^^^ That is a power i can live with. Making them beasts is just nonsense.
Your'e just nonsense. You don't have fecking clue.
Hmmm. Have any evidence to back up that i dont have a clue?
Because i think im very well clued in to the Eldar. Dont play as them, but i've played against them enough times to have an opinion on them!
I agree that making Banshees Beasts isn't the best of ideas. A power that allows them to assault from vehicles that have moved could work, but I also like the bonus on the run move. 3" extra, or just a 2d6" run move.
The Scorpion powers might be a bit problematic. The problem is that Infiltrate and Stealth are granted by two different powers and that you can only take one. The problem there is that stealth mostly becomes interesting when the unit infiltrates (otherwise they're probably embarked on a Wave Serpent or somesuch), but you cannot take stealth if you already have infiltrate.
I suggest making either rule standard, and bringing in another exarch power.
Reading up on the Striking Scorpions on lexicanum, I read about the different focus the aspect had before the patient Karandaras, when Ahra was their Phoenix Lord. The Aspect under Ahra is described as 'relishing the hunt', as 'merciless' and having a 'murderous nature'. Perhaps something could be done with that, representing an Exarch sticking to the old ways. What about re-rolls to wound in close combat?
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